Freedom Refill Method for Canon BCI 3, 5, 6 & CLI 8 & PGI 5 and others

[gigigogu]

Gigigogu, I'm trying to figure out what might have happened. it appears that there has been ink in the space above the sponge. This probably means one of two things:
(1) You used pressure to force ink into the cartridge (you pushed on the plunger at some time, or
(2) there was a lot of ink in the sponge that foamed during evacuation (the cartridge wasn't empty when you refilled it).

You said there was "a lot of foam in sponge". When and where did you observe foam?

It is a bit more complicated. Yes, there was ink above the sponge but from multiple causes:
- positive pressure aka pushing the plunger in one or two instances
- there was a "preferred channel" for ink straight from bottom to top. This channel is visible in picture for both cartridges
- in the space above sponge it is created also negative pressure that may draw ink

Regarding the foam, when you apply negative pressure you draw air from hole cartridge, from spongeless side, form the space above sponge and from sponge. All this air is routed through bottom sponge that, no matter is was inkless or not at the beginning, it was filled after very first cycle.
So I observed the foam in bottom sponge and in syringe at "pull" part of cycle, starting with second cycle.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Ghwells, thanks for the clarification. So the sponge can be oversaturated in an opaque cartridge. One can either weigh the cartridge and determine how much ink to add, or alternatively, fill it completely, then open the vent and withdraw a small, predetermined amount.

So I observed the foam in bottom sponge and in syringe at "pull" part of cycle, starting with second cycle.

Foam in the syringe. I see. For some reason that doesn't seem to have occurred in the three videos that we have seen. I didn't observe it either. It may be that it occurs only under some conditions, or maybe for some type of ink. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. If you look closely at the three videos that we have seen, the sponge appears to be quite well filled on the first stroke.

there was a "preferred channel" for ink straight from bottom to top. This channel is visible in picture for both cartridges - in the space above sponge it is created also negative pressure that may draw ink

Yes, there is a channel. For this reason I suggest holding the vent side up during the fill stroke.

 

[ghwellsjr]

To answer your other questions about the InkTec system for HP564, there are, I believe, three sizes of cartridges, with three kinds of matching fillers: black, black XL, and colored (CMYK). The InkTec kits come with all the sizes that you need. The (pigment) black comes with both size fillers; the colored kits comes with three, although one would suffice; PK is a separate kit, but I believe the cartridge (and the filler) are the same as CMY.

It sounds like you are saying that if I wanted to be able to use these clips, I would have to buy two kits, one for pigment cartridges and one for dye
cartridges, correct?

I thought somewhere I read that these refill kits were only good for the non-XL cartridges because they were ineffective on the XL carts. And I thought the only only difference between the XL and non-XL cartridges was internally where the hole between the chambers is located, correct? For these two reasons, I don't understand why there would be two different types of fillers, one for XL and one for non-XL. I'm assuming that this applies only to the wider black pigment cartridges, correct?

Then for the dye ink kits there are three fillers: is the intent here to use a different one for each of the three colors? And aren't there XL and non-XL versions of the dye ink cartridges?

I wouldn't buy the kits just for the fillers, unless you want the ink too, but they are handy, especially for the non-XL cartridges. Note that InkTec does not supply these for all cartridges. Note also that there are also other brands that use similar systems for some cartridges.

Can you provide some links to these other brands?

 

[ghwellsjr]

I tried it again, with better (but not perfect) seals and I was able to completely fill the cartridge.

But as I said in my previous post, there was a lot of foam in sponge.
Below is a picture with a cartridge refilled with German method (left) and one refilled with "Freedom Method" (right).

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/uploads/8054_img_0065.jpg

The difference in color of lower sponge is noticeable, I suppose there are more sponge cells not filled with ink.

Before I settled on the final Freedom Method, I tried several other schemes, some of which produce a lot of bubbles in the lower sponge. For example, one of my early schemes was to use a much longer piece of vinyl tubing (about four inches long) that went directly into the syringe (I hadn't thought of putting a bend in the nozzle yet). The problem is that when you pull on the syringe, even if there are no leaks anywhere in the system, you will still get bubbles from the ink being boiled. These bubbles get sucked into the tubing and into the syringe so that when you release the plunger it forces a bunch of bubbles back into the cartridge. I was thinking about using a drip irrigation elbow to make the 90 degree turn shorter but then I thought of putting it right in the nozzle. That greatly improved the situation.

Also, with a smaller syringe, you don't have time to get most of the bubbles through the tubing and you are greatly restricted in the amount of vacuum you can pull.

So I'm wondering if you are actually using a 60 cc syringe with a bent nozzle and the short piece of tubing and rubber hose or do you have a longer path from the cartridge to the syringe?

And are you using an OEM cartridge that has never had any extra refill holes put into it?

Here are pictures of both sides of the cartridge used in the video (taken 5 days after the refill):

The sponge is pretty well saturated.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I've read here that if we dislodge the sponges a little bit when inserting the needle for the German method that we can tap the cartridge down on a hard surface to force the sponge back into its correct position. Is there any chance that with the Freedom method that the sponges could be pushed out of position with the forces involved during refilling this way? This wouldn't really alter anything as we could tap the sponge back into place again if it did dislodge.

I haven't observed this problem but if it comes up, we know the solution.

 

[ghwellsjr]

- there was a "preferred channel" for ink straight from bottom to top. This channel is visible in picture for both cartridges

I cannot see where the channel is in your picture. Is it where the lighter color is in my pictures that travel from the outlet port straight up?

 

[barfl2]

ghwellsjr ThrillaMozilla is quite correct with regard to the Inktec Kits I had HPI 7016D, 7017D and 7018C. The colour one comes with 3 clips labelled C/Y/M You have Green and Purple for the 2 Pigment ones and a Grey one for the Photoblack. You should be able see the Kit contents on their website. However I WOULD REPEAT THE [b]INSTRUCTIONS INSERT 3ML only in the colour ones, and 6ml in the Black Pigment
.No mention is made of the XL Carts.

. There is no mention of larger amounts and when I tried putting in more with a XL cart just got ink flooding back through the clip. So I asssumed the system was only intended to soak the sponge. With regard to your query on number of kits would confirm you would 1 for colour (1 syringe of C/M/Y) 1 for Pigment Black (2 different sized inserts and 2 syringes of ink) 1 for Photo black 1 clip 2 syringes of ink)

barfl2

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I've been thinking about the foam problem some more. It's probably crucial to inject just liquid, not foam back into the cartridge. Another possible problem might be that gigigogu is NOT using ghwellsjr's device, and might have a poor vacuum. If the vacuum is good, the air should come out, and the foam should (probably) collapse when the vacuum is released. It's true, Ghwellsjr's device has a fairly small internal volume, and that's a good thing. Without being there, it's hard to know for sure what's going wrong.

++++++++++++++++++
Ghwells, yes, correct about the Inktec kits. The filler has to match the external size and shape of the cartridge. With HP564 and 564XL cartridges there are three different external sizes.

HP564 black and HP564XL (pigment) black have different external sizes. The black kit has fillers for both. All the Inktec fillers use Luer-Slip connections.

HP564 CMY PK and HP564XL CMY PK all use the same size (but different from pigment black). These are all dyes. The CMY color kit has three fillers; the separate PK kit has one. It's easy to clean, so you really only need one for all CMY PK.

The directions for the XL and non-XL are the same. You inject 4 mL and fill (or overfill) the sponge only. Of course, you can also use the kit to fill the whole XL cartridge if you're smart enough (I haven't tried this yet).

As I wrote before, the fillers are handy, but I wouldn't buy the whole kit just to get them.

 

[gigigogu]

The cartridge used in both attempts is OEM, previously refilled with alternate (lateral) German method. The hole was sealed with hot glue.

In first attempt I used a 10 cc syringe and a 10 cm / 4 inch tube. There were air leaks at air maze and connection to outlet port.

In second attempt I used a 20 cc syringe and 1.2 cm / 0.5 inch tube. Air leaks only at connection with outlet port and only at big negative pressure.

The "channel" I am speaking is near the front edge of cartridge (opposite side of spongeless compartment). It is also visible in ghwellsjr pictures.

Currently I am gathering materials for third attempt, to do it "by the book"

 

[ghwellsjr]

With regard to your query on number of kits would confirm you would 1 for colour (1 syringe of C/M/Y) 1 for Pigment Black (2 different sized inserts and 2 syringes of ink) 1 for Photo black 1 clip 2 syringes of ink)

Ghwells, yes, correct about the Inktec kits. The filler has to match the external size and shape of the cartridge. With HP564 and 564XL cartridges there are three different external sizes.

HP564 black and HP564XL (pigment) black have different external sizes. The black kit has fillers for both. All the Inktec fillers use Luer-Slip connections.

HP564 CMY PK and HP564XL CMY PK all use the same size (but different from pigment black). These are all dyes. The CMY color kit has three fillers; the separate PK kit has one. It's easy to clean, so you really only need one for all CMY PK.

The directions for the XL and non-XL are the same. You inject 4 mL and fill (or overfill) the sponge only. Of course, you can also use the kit to fill the whole XL cartridge if you're smart enough (I haven't tried this yet).

As I wrote before, the fillers are handy, but I wouldn't buy the whole kit just to get them.

Forgive me for not quite understanding but part of the problem is the two of you are using different terminology and I'm trying to correlate your information with the vendor's website. Here are three pictures for these kits in the USA (Click on them to see an enlarged view):







Now if we use barfl2's terminology, each kit comes with one clip and one or more inserts which I think is what ThrillaMozilla is calling fillers, correct?

Would I be correct in understanding that the clip in the first picture for pigment black kit is different from the clips in the other two dye kits?

If I bought the first kit, would it work with Canon BCI-3eBK cartridges?

If I bought either of the last two kits, would it work with all Canon BCI-6 cartridges?

Would I need to buy two kits in order to fill both pigment and dye cartridges?