Freedom Refill Method for Canon BCI 3, 5, 6 & CLI 8 & PGI 5 and others

[pharmacist]

Maybe this is it: http://www.ewekoshop.de/en/JERO-Productions/HpCaJig-for-HP-Canon-single-ink-cartridges

ghwellsjr: that's the one quoted by Tudor and you might look at youtube as well for the former version. If the rubber sealing is not properly done, this forcefull method can cause dripping. I think the video showing the refilling over a sink is a good safety precaution.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Maybe this is it: http://www.ewekoshop.de/en/JERO-Productions/HpCaJig-for-HP-Canon-single-ink-cartridges

That link instructs the user to pull on the plunger and hold it for 2-3 seconds and then push on it. I agree, that would be very risky, you would turn your apparatus into a squirt gun (more like a cannon) if you did that. Those are not my instructions. I never said to push on the plunger. In reference to testing the air tightness of the apparatus, I say, "Now pull back quickly on the plunger until it is near the 60 cc mark then allow the vacuum in the cartridge to pull the plunger back into the syringe. Whatever you do, don't let go of the plunger because it will snap back in and probably knock the cartridge off the adapter."

I probably should have been a little more explicit later on when describing the action during filling. What I did say was, "When you are drawing on the plunger, hold the apparatus so that the hole between the two chambers is uppermost so that air can escape. When you are allowing the vacuum in the cartridge to pull the plunger back in, tip the apparatus back so that the ink has a greater chance to flow down to the hole between the chambers."

I guess with other similar systems directing the user to pull and push, it might be easy to think a similar action is required here. But it is unnecessary and undesireable to push on the plunger. Just let the vacuum suck the ink into the cartridge. Each time you do this the plunger will not go in as far as it did the previous time and you might be tempted to help it along by pushing, but don't do it. You can point the syringe upward, wait for the ink to dribble out of the adapter back into the syringe, remove the adapter, carefully push on the plunger to remove excess air, reattach the syringe to the adapter and go for some more cycles. But never push on the plunger while it is connected to the adapter and the cartridge.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Maybe this is it: http://www.ewekoshop.de/en/JERO-Productions/HpCaJig-for-HP-Canon-single-ink-cartridges

ghwellsjr: that's the one quoted by Tudor and you might look at youtube as well for the former version. If the rubber sealing is not properly done, this forcefull method can cause dripping. I think the video showing the refilling over a sink is a good safety precaution.

Now that I have seen the eweko video again, I remember it from the previous discussion on the "A new way to fill". I commented there on post #10 that they shouldn't be pushing on the plunger and we got a good laugh when Rob said in post #14 it looked like the guy was trying to unclog a toilet!!!

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Very nice. I like it. It's good to see it with transparent cartridges. It keeps ink out of the vent very nicely.

Assuming the thin tubing was flexible, you could bend the tubing instead of the syringe tip, but the way you did it reduced the dead volume a little.

ThrillaMozilla reported some success using this clip with a vacuum technique with various carts so he can probably report on what the issues are he had with it. I think the main problem is the smaller orifice on the normal size syringe which makes it harder for the bubbles that form to get into the syringe allowing the ink to flow back into the cartridge. That, combined with the smaller capacity of the syringe that I think he was using would prove to be not too satisfying.

No, it works fine. The size of the orifice is no problem. Air goes through it just fine. The main difference is that I used the IncTec clips, while you used your tubing adapter to do the same thing. I used smaller syringes because I filled smaller cartridges, but ideally you do need enough capacity for the ink plus vacuum. A 20 mL or larger syringe would probably be good for 10 mL of ink. [paragraph edited]

Although I haven't tried it, I suspect it might also work with smaller syringes. In this case you would inject ink, then withdraw air, so you would start with pressure filling instead of vacuum filling. As you get more space in the syringe, then you could pull a vacuum. You would still want to seal the vent for filling. The drawback of pressure filling is that you risk forcing ink out the vent. [paragraph edited]

Your setup was more vacuum-tight than mine. In particular, you sealed the air vent very well, and even I am surprised how well that kept ink out of the vent. My vent leaked a little. It seems to be simple to clean the HP vents by drawing in a drop or two of distilled water, but it would be preferable to avoid it.

Barfl2, I did this with Inktec filling clips (the ones for HP564), and it worked fine. The filling clip doesn't seem to be quite vacuum-tight, but it doesn't really have to be completely tight at the syringe end. And you might improve the seal with a little pressure from your hand. The Inktec clip is nice if you've got 'em, but otherwise, the Ghwells solution is cheaper and probably more vacuum-tight. [paragraph edited for clarity]

ThrillaMozilla also pointed out at the end of the link above that the non XL versions have the hole between the two chambers in the top instead of the bottom so you would not want to use a vacuum method on these cartridges because although it would put ink into the reservoir, there would be no way for the ink to get out while the cartridge was in the printer. Although it wouldn't hurt anything, it would be a waste of good ink.

You can use the same method, but as you point out, you should stop when you've filled the sponge. You don't want to fill the other chamber.

 

[ghwellsjr]

...It's good to see it with transparent cartridges...

...I filled smaller cartridges...

Have you only tried the opaque cartridges? The ones with the windows in the reservoir?

It seemed to me that this method would be ideal for the opaque cartridges because it is essentially self-limiting. You can repeat the process as many times as you want and it only tops off the reservoir. It doesn't usually saturate the sponge any more than it did on the first cycle and it doesn't usually get ink into the air vent. But even if it did get ink into the air vent, or if you just wanted to play it safe; after you're done refilling, you can remove the tape from the air vent, clean the ink out of the syringe and reattach it and then suck on the outlet port which will suck any ink remaining in the serpentine air vent path into the cartridge. With the cartridge up-side-down, this will even clear out the ink from the three wells in the air vent path, something that I found very hard to do with my conventional vacuum refill process and one of the reasons I switched to the German method. But now I'm switching to this method because it does not leave any holes that can leak.

 

[barfl2]

ghwellsjr Re your comments about the Inktec clips YES this was the correct video. However my interest is if I can use the Clips not for HP364 but for exactly the Canon ones you designed the system for. I thought if possible save making up the adaptors. From ThrillaMozzilla comments he has already tried it on the HP Carts, but from your comments it looks as though the restricted flow through the clip might be the problem.

I will give it a go. Thanks again for your input Do the little nibs on the ink outlet play any part in locating the cart in the printer? or are they something to do with the moulding process ? If the latter presumably they could be cut off to get a better seal, as the contact area of the outlet port is pretty small 0.146" depth on my carts.

barfl2

 

[ghwellsjr]

I have no idea how well the clips would work. I'm glad you're going to give them a try. What is the cheapest price you could get one of each for the two different size cartridges? How would you order them?

I can't see any function for the four little nibs on the outlet ports of the cartridges. I assume they are for mechanical reinforcement. Cutting them off would be another thing you could try and report on for us.

 

[barfl2]

ghwellsjr Well my first attempt with the Inktec clips did not work. The Canon cart is a bit higher so makes for a tighter fit which should be good. made a similar but smaller adaptor to yours to fit the post on the clip and silicon tubing onto 20cc syringe. Fitted flexible Duct tape to air vent and pressed well down. When connected to clip
no vacuum slowly injected water into a purged yellow cart with some ink still in sponge, immediately the pressure caused a leak on the air vent which blew coloured water over a brand new shirt (great joy). I then pushed harder and quicker, the result was to put fluid into ink chamber but as soon as I released pressure on the syringe it came back on its own complete with all the fluid I had put in.

It look almost as the vacuum works in reverse, might be handy for purging with warm water.

I have tried making an adaptor for the small cart but again NO vacuum, so obviously my seal is not good enough yet. Will keep trying ROME was not built in a day

With regard to the Inktec clips I doubt they would sell them on their own. Mine came coutesy of Kits with Black or Coloured Inks for HP364 and from memory cost about 9.00 each set. They to my knowledge do not offer this system for Canon

barfl2

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Have you only tried the opaque cartridges? The ones with the windows in the reservoir?

My HP cartridges are completely opaque, except for one that I found.

It seemed to me that this method would be ideal for the opaque cartridges because it is essentially self-limiting. You can repeat the process as many times as you want and it only tops off the reservoir. It doesn't usually saturate the sponge any more then it did on the first cycle and it doesn't usually get ink into the air vent.

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EDIT: It is possible to oversaturate the sponge and to get ink in the space above the sponge. See http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=46066#p46066 . So part of the rest of this message is wrong.
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Excellent point. I put it in bold.

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EDIT: I outsmarted myself with the next paragraph. It's simply incorrect. It is possible to oversaturate the sponge, as ghwellsjr verified for me. If overfilling cannot be prevented, then a revised procedure could include opening the vent withdrawing a predetermined small amount of ink from the outlet, as the last step.
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And there's more to it too. As long as the system is vacuum-tight and you don't push on the plunger, friction in the syringe will leave a slight vacuum in the cartridge until you remove the tape or the syringe. That means that the cartridge will be filled under a slight vacuum, and the sponge cannot be oversaturated. After rethinking about this a little bit, I believe the ideal is not to push on the plunger at all, but to let the vacuum draw it in.

But even if it did get ink into the air vent, or if you just wanted to play it safe; after you're done refilling, you can remove the tape from the air vent, clean the ink out of the syringe and reattach it and then suck on the outlet port which will suck any ink remaining in the serpentine air vent path into the cartridge. With the cartridge up-side-down, this will even clear out the ink from the three wells in the air vent path, something that I found very hard to do with my conventional vacuum refill process and one of the reasons I switched to the German method. But now I'm switching to this method because it does not leave any holes that can leak.

Yes, it's easy to clean the vent that way. I even drew in a couple of drops of distilled water just to leave it clean, but this probably isn't necessary.

 

[ghwellsjr]

ghwellsjr Well my first attempt with the Inktec clips did not work. The Canon cart is a bit higher so makes for a tighter fit which should be good. made a similar but smaller adaptor to yours to fit the post on the clip and silicon tubing onto 20cc syringe. Fitted flexible Duct tape to air vent and pressed well down. When connected to clip
no vacuum slowly injected water into a purged yellow cart with some ink still in sponge, immediately the pressure caused a leak on the air vent which blew coloured water over a brand new shirt (great joy). I then pushed harder and quicker, the result was to put fluid into ink chamber but as soon as I released pressure on the syringe it came back on its own complete with all the fluid I had put in.

It look almost as the vacuum works in reverse, might be handy for purging with warm water.

I have tried making an adaptor for the small cart but again NO vacuum, so obviously my seal is not good enough yet. Will keep trying ROME was not built in a day

With regard to the Inktec clips I doubt they would sell them on their own. Mine came coutesy of Kits with Black or Coloured Inks for HP364 and from memory cost about 9.00 each set. They to my knowledge do not offer this system for Canon

barfl2

I realize that Inktec designed these clips to work with their little syringe/bottles of ink which can only apply positive pressure but I'm confused why you would apply positive pressure from your 20cc syringe. Why wouldn't you do what I do and pull on the plunger first and let the vacuum suck the ink in when you slowly allow the plunger to go back in without ever pushing on it. You should turn the clip and its installed cartridge upside down and tip the syringe down so that the ink will flow out of it.

I'm also confused why you had to make an adapter to fit your syringe to the clip. Doesn't your syringe have the same fitting as the Inktec syringe/bottles?

And are you saying that the HP carts are not as tall as the older Canon carts (BCI, CLI, and PGI) and so you would have a little trouble using the clips with Canon carts? How much difference is there? I found a place that bundles two clips (along with ink) for $28. Does this look like the cheapest way to get these clips? And can you confirm that there are in fact two different clips, one for the narrow dye ink cartridges and a different one for the wider pigment cartridges?