Freedom Refill Method for Canon BCI 3, 5, 6 & CLI 8 & PGI 5 and others

[barfl2]

ghwellsjr To answer some of your queries re the Inktec kits. 1. Yes you get the different rubber inserts for small and large. 2. You could use a non luer syringe but you are relying on your keeping it in contact with the output post on the clip which is 0.190" O/D 0.166" I/D I found a piece of plastic tubing which was a good pushfit on the O/D and superglued inside it a piece of 1/4" O/D Silicon which fits nicely onto a standard luer syringe.This gave me more control of pushing in the plunger and no chance of a leak. 3. The HP cart is 1.642" high over the exit port a Canon Cl-8/BC1-3 1.733" The clip will accept it but you have to trim back slightly the support which contacts the side of the cart to get it vertical.

But as you say this a pressure system I still have the original instructions, it clearly states insert 3ml slowly over 10 secs. and makes no mention anywhere about the larger capacity XL CARTS. I thought the small thumb syringes were specific to their clips but I may be wrong. The system works well but 3ml at a time on my previous HP C5380 was pretty useless they headclean every cart change and every time printer is switched on, and it was a LONG NOISY affair and got through ink at an alarming rate so I sold it on for very little money but was glad to see the back of it. Printed great but too expensive for my taste.

With regard to your NEW Freedom method I have obviously missed the instruction NOT to push on the plunger which explains why I have got inky water everywhere. I did not have a spare BC!-3bk only compatibles so I machined up a piece of 3/4" Stainless to be a pushfit on the exit port with nibs removed and O ring on the exit port. Turned the other end to suit the above mentioned sillcon tubing attached to my 20ml syringe (largest I have but perhaps it is necessary to have the 60ml ?)

So I have got what I thought was a perfect seal pulled plunger back no movement at all, thats when I pushed it down which required considerable pressure, then the tape lifted on the air outlet and old inky water went everywhere. I then released plunger which returned to start position and the fluid returned from the Cart to the syringe.

I returned somewhat chastened to read the latest world problems in the Newspaper.

barfl2

 

[ghwellsjr]

For opaque cartridges we might need to rethink this a little.

It seemed to me that this method would be ideal for the opaque cartridges because it is essentially self-limiting. You can repeat the process as many times as you want and it only tops off the reservoir. It doesn't usually saturate the sponge any more then it did on the first cycle and it doesn't usually get ink into the air vent.

Are you sure? If you keep going, can you fill the space above the sponge? I suspect you can.

And there's more to it too. As long as the system is vacuum-tight and you don't push on the plunger, friction in the syringe will leave a slight vacuum in the cartridge until you remove the tape or the syringe. That means that the cartridge will be filled under a slight vacuum, and the sponge cannot be oversaturated.

I won't bother to state the reason, but I think this is wrong. I'll bet you can oversaturate the sponge.

Can you check this on one of your transparent cartridges? Can you fill the space above the sponge? And can you fill it so full that the cartridge drips? This may depend on the quality of the vacuum you can get, but for transparent cartridges it may be necessary to modify the procedure a little. For example, one could fill it full and then withdraw a small, measured volume of ink, depending on the specific cartridge.

If you use a normal syringe like the commercial models do and you refill with the cartridge upside down so that the air space between the sponge and the air vent is at the bottom, then yes, you can get quite a lot of ink in that air space and in the air vent path. Realize that in this configuration, the hole between the two chambers is at the top which also favors ink going into the sponge instead of into the reservoir.

That is why I use a bent syringe and why I hold the cartridge with the reservoir down so that the ink will tend to flow into it instead of toward the air gap. But I didn't say the ink can't go into the air gap or the air vent, I said it doesn't usually go there. If you allow the plunger to release too quickly, it has a tendency to force ink into the air gap but holding the reservoir down helps prevent the ink from getting into the air vent because the air vent port is in the middle of the sponge chamber. I suspect that there is in reality a small air leak in the tape seal over the air vent which helps keep the ink from flowing into the air gap.

Now as to your question about oversaturating the sponge, it depends on what you mean. If you mean there is so much ink in it that it drips out of the outlet port as soon as you remove the tape over the air vent, then I would say no, that hasn't happened to me. But if you mean that there is so much ink in the sponge that it prevents proper air flow down to the groves that provide the air to the reservoir during normal printing use, then I doubt it because I never had that problem when I vacuum filled in a chamber and completely saturated the sponge--but then I always blew into the air vent hole to clear out the air gap which also put a little air into the upper sponge. Or if you mean that there is so much ink in the sponge that it tends to dry out there require purging earlier, I would say that the Freedom Refill Method automatically does a purging each time you refill. When you get your setup and especially if you can practice on a transparent cartridge, you will see that there is a lot of back and forth flushing each time you pull and relieve the vacuum during the normal fill process.

Keep in mind that one of the points I made about this refill process is that it can end up with the top of the sponge remaining white, just like an OEM cartridge. Those cartridges obviously had plenty of ink in the upper sponge with no adverse effects for normal printing. The only question is whether that dried ink has an adverse effect on refilling, which, of course, Canon wouldn't care about, but we do and I'm just saying, this process is no worse off than getting a virgin OEM cartridge when you get ready to do your next refill.

But as I said in post #15, it may be a good idea after you remove the air vent tape to pull back on the plunger to get some air into the upper sponge, especially if you have an opaque cartridge.

 

[ghwellsjr]

ghwellsjr To answer some of your queries re the Inktec kits. 1. Yes you get the different rubber inserts for small and large.

But do you get both rubber inserts (for small and large) if you buy just one kit (either small or large)? In other words, do I have to buy two kits, one small and one large, in order to be able to refill both sized cartridges?

2. You could use a non luer syringe but you are relying on your keeping it in contact with the output post on the clip which is 0.190" O/D 0.166" I/D

I don't know if Inktec made a change in the HP syringe/bottles but the ones for Canon do not have a luer lock on them. They look like a luer lock but there are no threads inside it. You can easily pull it off by twisting in the wrong direction. So if the HP ones are just like the Canon ones, then even if there is provision on the clip for a luer lock, it is not doing any good. Of course, if you used a syringe with a real luer lock it would be doing something useful for pressure filling but if you are doing vacuum refilling like I am proposing, you don't really need to have a luer lock, a press fit will never come off from too much vacuum.

 

[ghwellsjr]

With regard to your NEW Freedom method I have obviously missed the instruction NOT to push on the plunger which explains why I have got inky water everywhere.

Everybody missed it because originally I never explicitly made it clear but I edited my original post so that now it is very clear. Sorry for your accident. Hopefully now, no one else will make the same mistake.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

If you use a normal syringe like the commercial models do and you refill with the cartridge upside down so that the air space between the sponge and the air vent is at the bottom, then yes, you can get quite a lot of ink in that air space and in the air vent path. Realize that in this configuration, the hole between the two chambers is at the top which also favors ink going into the sponge instead of into the reservoir.

Just fill it in your normal way, but don't stop when you see that it is full. If you do that, can you overfill it?

(With an opaque cartridge you can't see when to stop. If you fill the sponge and the space above the sponge then the cartridge will drip. And it may drip even if you don't fill the space above the sponge.)

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I don't know if Inktec made a change in the HP syringe/bottles but the ones for Canon do not have a luer lock on them.

The InkTec fillers for HP do not have Luer-Lock connections, but neither do my syringes for the German method. They fit ordinary (Luer-Slip) syringes, and they're fine for moderate pressure use. You just can't be stupid about it. You need to inject slowly anyway. For users who can't be trusted with ink, I recommend laser printers or commercial print services.

To answer your other questions about the InkTec system for HP564, there are, I believe, three sizes of cartridges, with three kinds of matching fillers: black, black XL, and colored (CMYK). The InkTec kits come with all the sizes that you need. The (pigment) black comes with both size fillers; the colored kits comes with three, although one would suffice; PK is a separate kit, but I believe the cartridge (and the filler) are the same as CMY.

I wouldn't buy the kits just for the fillers, unless you want the ink too, but they are handy, especially for the non-XL cartridges. Note that InkTec does not supply these for all cartridges. Note also that there are also other brands that use similar systems for some cartridges.

 

[gigigogu]

I tried it again, with better (but not perfect) seals and I was able to completely fill the cartridge.

But as I said in my previous post, there was a lot of foam in sponge.
Below is a picture with a cartridge refilled with German method (left) and one refilled with "Freedom Method" (right).

The difference in color of lower sponge is noticeable, I suppose there are more sponge cells not filled with ink.

 

[rodbam]

I've read here that if we dislodge the sponges a little bit when inserting the needle for the German method that we can tap the cartridge down on a hard surface to force the sponge back into its correct position. Is there any chance that with the Freedom method that the sponges could be pushed out of position with the forces involved during refilling this way? This wouldn't really alter anything as we could tap the sponge back into place again if it did dislodge.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Gigigogu, I'm trying to figure out what might have happened. it appears that there has been ink in the space above the sponge. This probably means one of two things:
(1) You used pressure to force ink into the cartridge (you pushed on the plunger at some time, or
(2) there was a lot of ink in the sponge that foamed during evacuation (the cartridge wasn't empty when you refilled it).

You said there was "a lot of foam in sponge". When and where did you observe foam?

 

[ghwellsjr]

If you use a normal syringe like the commercial models do and you refill with the cartridge upside down so that the air space between the sponge and the air vent is at the bottom, then yes, you can get quite a lot of ink in that air space and in the air vent path. Realize that in this configuration, the hole between the two chambers is at the top which also favors ink going into the sponge instead of into the reservoir.

Just fill it in your normal way, but don't stop when you see that it is full. If you do that, can you overfill it?

(With an opaque cartridge you can't see when to stop. If you fill the sponge and the space above the sponge then the cartridge will drip. And it may drip even if you don't fill the space above the sponge.)

I did two tests, one on the filled cartridge that I made the video with and one on a very dry empty virgin cartridge.

The first one that was already full immediately took on a lot of ink in the air space, but not enough to reach the air vent port. But the ink in the air space got sucked away and then refilled with each cycle of the plunger, a little less each time. After a few cycles, I removed the refill apparatus and the tape over the air vent and set the cartridge down right side up. It leaked out some ink. No surprise there. Remember, I'm pretending I have an opaque cartridge and can't see what is happening above the sponge.

Then, I repeated the refill process and got more ink above the sponge, but this time after removing the tape over the air vent but not removing the refill apparatus, I turned the cartridge upside down, pulled about 5 cc on the plunger to remove any ink in the serpentine path, turned the cartridge right side up, pulled on the plunger some more to suck away the ink above the sponge, and then removed the refill apparatus and set the cartridge down. This time, no ink leaked out. Again, no surprise.

Finally, I refilled the dry empty cartridge and just kept cycling the plunger more than eight times but no ink went into the air space. After removing the refill apparatus and the tape over the air vent, I set the cartridge down as before and a little bit of ink came out.

So, it makes sense to remove the air vent tape and pull on the plunger to remove any ink in the air vent path and above the sponge, especially if you have an opaque cartridge.