CLI-8 Cartridges, How does the chip really monitor ink?

[Sirman]

You could be right that it may be due to location, a test batch by canon to test market reaction etc, a bad batch or other reasons etc. I have not come to my own conclusion yet. I am just glad that I had one batch (older batch) that I could use to refill. As for Sirman's issue, I am not too sure if he using Canon Original Chip on Original Canon Cartridges or place these Original Chip on Compatible Canon cartridges (ie non-OEM carts). So I couldn't comment on his experience except that according to him his colored chips had the same issue.

I remember :/ ... I did not used 3 original Canon colour cardriges because i moved these chips to 3 new Oem cardriges and buyed a unused new PGBK 5 to but .. but this was OEM cardrige but sure the chip was never removed. All are dimmed and not able for reset . I am sure i put the ink toners in the right places and make the right contacts ... And I have to see in a secondhand machine i receiving today the be sure if its normal that the DATA OUT line is not gooing in to the Mean controling print our ... this could explain my problem if this normaly is the fact ... . Until the end of the day i respond again and we all know more .

 

[Sirman]

Luckly I have 4 lines but one with 100 Ohm ( DATA OUT ) between the pin and the beginning of the flatcable . I had my meter on noise not on ohm so i didnt hear the buzzer bell when 100 ohm was in the way . .. please check chip picture http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1506&p=15 again . I dont know what was the corse but now my 2nd ip4300 printer is arrived and keeping it original for a check .

 

[websnail]

I think you misunderstood. ....

It wouldn't be the first time... it seems you were right... Thanks for clarifying..

I think the confusion take place because I said I dismissed just like everyone right after I had mentioned I had read your thread on 'canon printer refill/ciss capable' (see lin's quote below). It's my fault that my sentence was lumped together and I didn't state clearly that I was referring to keastman's post.

That sounds about right... that's more or less how I interpreted it... Ah well..

You could be right that it may be due to location, a test batch by canon to test market reaction etc, a bad batch or other reasons etc. I have not come to my own conclusion yet. I am just glad that I had one batch (older batch) that I could use to refill.

Yeah, thinking about it I know that Europe makes it legally difficult for Canon or any other to make it impossible to refill but that protection doesn't extend further afield. At a guess there may be different cartridges in the Asian market, what with Japan being the homeland for Canon and their being different systems being tested there (the MP500 for example has the ability to ignore the chips if you choose the Japanese version) so who knows...

 

[pharmacist]

Websnail, your comment about the japanese version of the firmware can trigger the MP500 to omit the chips and fall back again on the prism for ink detection made me very curious if this principle applies to the whole chipped CLI-8/PGI-5 range of Canon printers......

If so, then firmware hacking would do the trick..........

Instead of cracking the chip a firmware upload can disable the whole chip system and the printer will be able to use the old fashioned prism ink detection system which worked very well with the older BCI-6/BCI-3eBK printers.

 

[websnail]

Websnail, your comment about the japanese version of the firmware can trigger the MP500 to omit the chips and fall back again on the prism for ink detection made me very curious if this principle applies to the whole chipped CLI-8/PGI-5 range of Canon printers......

If so, then firmware hacking would do the trick..........

Instead of cracking the chip a firmware upload can disable the whole chip system and the printer will be able to use the old fashioned prism ink detection system which worked very well with the older BCI-6/BCI-3eBK printers.

It might work but I'm sure it only applies to the 1st generation chipped printers and I think (don't quote me on this) it was only the MP500's IIRC... There will be threads about this from years ago though I'm sure of it.

As a result there's probably limited mileage in pursuing this and I'm pretty sure the firmware would require you to sit through Japanese interface language but that may be firmware resolvable too... It's out of my area of expertise tho'

 

[websnail]

@ Lin:

I still don't know what model printer you are using... You have never said... Is it an iP4200?

 

[Tin Ho]

What the problem was with the new batch of CLI8BK chip on OEM cartridge that was programmed in such a way that the accept warranty void option at the dialogue prompt was removed and reset via resume/stop button was not possible as well. This is totally different from 'ink tank not recognized' which I am not encountering.

This is false. At least in the USA this is not true. Why? Just read the following.

Read the latest version of ip4500 user's manual. In the troubleshooting section under the title of "Sixteen flashes: Ink has run out." it says:

Ink has run out. (The lamp on the ink tank flashes.)
Replace the ink tank and close the Top Cover.
Printing under the current condition may damage the printer.
If you want to continue printing in this condition, you need to release the function for detecting the remaining ink level. Press and hold the RESUME/CANCEL button for at least 5 seconds, and then release it.
* With this operation, releasing the function for detecting the remaining ink level is memorized. Please be advised that Canon shall not be liable for any malfunction or trouble which may be caused by continuation of printing under the ink out condition.

It's clearly telling you how to do what everyone has been doing to get around the chip and refill since chipped ink cartridge came out on Pixma printers. If Canon has reprogrammed the chips they would have rewritten the manual as well.

Besides, I just did it to a 3 months old ip4300 for the PGI5 cartridge. The LED is dimmed, just as expected, and cartridge is refilled. The cartridge is still recognized and the printer still prints.

 

[lin]

What the problem was with the new batch of CLI8BK chip on OEM cartridge that was programmed in such a way that the accept warranty void option at the dialogue prompt was removed and reset via resume/stop button was not possible as well. This is totally different from 'ink tank not recognized' which I am not encountering.

This is false. At least in the USA this is not true. Why? Just read the following.

Read the latest version of ip4500 user's manual. In the troubleshooting section under the title of "Sixteen flashes: Ink has run out." it says:

Ink has run out. (The lamp on the ink tank flashes.)
Replace the ink tank and close the Top Cover.
Printing under the current condition may damage the printer.
If you want to continue printing in this condition, you need to release the function for detecting the remaining ink level. Press and hold the RESUME/CANCEL button for at least 5 seconds, and then release it.
* With this operation, releasing the function for detecting the remaining ink level is memorized. Please be advised that Canon shall not be liable for any malfunction or trouble which may be caused by continuation of printing under the ink out condition.

It's clearly telling you how to do what everyone has been doing to get around the chip and refill since chipped ink cartridge came out on Pixma printers. If Canon has reprogrammed the chips they would have rewritten the manual as well.

Besides, I just did it to a 3 months old ip4300 for the PGI5 cartridge. The LED is dimmed, just as expected, and cartridge is refilled. The cartridge is still recognized and the printer still prints.

Tin Ho, have you read the thread that I link at post #147 here? If you have not, try reading it to have an idea of the discussion.

I knew how to reset via resume/stop button or accepting warranty void and my printer was capable of doing so also (before my logic board was replaced when I sent my printer for repaired. Which I had also mentioned in this thread http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2808 and which you had also read).

The thing with that problematic CLI8BK from later batch, is that this chip has been programmed and work with the printer in such a way that it does not allow the reset via resume/stop button. You can hold that button as long as you like regardless 5 seconds, 10 seconds, 60 seconds, 5 mins, 30 mins, or more. It will not reset that problematic CLI8BK chip that was discussed. And that chip is not broke down or whatsoever.

Similarly, you will not be able to accept warranty void normally like the other chips do because this problematic CLI8BK chip does not work with the printer to even throw that the warranty void message and ask you to accept. It will stay stuck at a message to ask you to replace the ink tank.You are only provided with only 2 option, either OK (which you have to replace the ink tank) or Cancel Printing. And the message will not proceed to any other message. You simply had to replace with new original Ink Tank. So there is no way to reset (via resume/stop button or accept warranty void since this option is not even provided to you) for this problematic chip.

Try read that thread which I link at post #147 here because that thread will provide more details. If you have time, backtrack a bit and read some of the post here from #147 onwards. Because I had done quite a bit of explanation. Like I said I was sceptical even when seller from our local store told me about this feedback from his customers since I reset via resume/stop button and accept warranty void just fine. No problem at all with my older batch of chip. Until I myself had one of this chip from my 2nd set.

Besides, I just did it to a 3 months old ip4300 for the PGI5 cartridge. The LED is dimmed, just as expected, and cartridge is refilled. The cartridge is still recognized and the printer still prints.

It does matter whether you did it 3 mths ago on your IP4300 or even if you just did it yesterday (literally speaking), because your chip is different from this later batch of CLI8BK chip which I am having.

As websnail has suggested (refer to quote below), it could be due to location, a bad batch or etc....

I'm beginning to think that the issue is either localised to one particular country or there was a batch of chips that were put out that had this change to see what would happen... There may also have been a bad batch.

 

[Tin Ho]

You are really the only person who have a CLI8BK that can not be refilled. By the way, you kept on saying "reset". I think you have a misconception that the chip is reset after pressing that damn button for 5 seconds. No, it's not reset. The chip remains the same before and after pressing that button for 5 seconds.

Did you read the user's manual as I suggested? If you did you should realize that you can take the CLI8BK to your Canon dealer and tell them it is defective because it won't do what the manual says it will.

 

[lin]

You are really the only person who have a CLI8BK that can not be refilled. By the way, you kept on saying "reset". I think you have a misconception that the chip is reset after pressing that damn button for 5 seconds. No, it's not reset. The chip remains the same before and after pressing that button for 5 seconds.

Did you read the user's manual as I suggested? If you did you should realize that you can take the CLI8BK to your Canon dealer and tell them it is defective because it won't do what the manual says it will.

I don't know what name to give the action of pressing that button for 5 seconds. I don't know what is the industry word for pressing the button for 5 seconds to release the chip with ink level monitoring. I call it as 'reset' as some people have called also as 'reset'. Which is why I usually type 'reset via resume/stop button' because I don't know what is the correct word to call that action of pressing button for 5 seconds. So I hope reader can try to read in context apart for a single 'word'.

Hmm, probably you are right that I am the only person who have a CLI8BK that cannont be refilled.

And did I read it wrongly that keastman is also having the same problem with his (small black one) cartridge at the thread which I provided the link at post #147? Sorry my English is rather weak, really sorry about that. Now I need everyone who have been reading this discussion to pls help me read keastman's thread at post #1 (at the link I provided at the post #147 here). And let me know (reply back) if I have read keastman's post #1 wrongly. Pls help to correct me if he isn't having similar problem with CLI8BK chip cartridge (according to him he called it as 'small black one'). I would really appreciate it.

And websnail, according to Tin Ho, it's seems that I am really the only person with this chip problem. Oh well, I guess I am really the only person with this problem chip.

However, I think I did mentioned in my post that my seller from local store who sells ink told me his customers feedback the same issue. However I don't know whether his customers who feedback whether they encounter this with colored chips or the CLI8BK chip. But the thing is it doesn't matter whether if it's CLI8BK chip or the other colored chips. As I kept saying, I only encountered that with CLI8BK chip and my colored one 'reset'/accept warranty void just fine. So I can't comment on the colored chips.

Did you read the user's manual as I suggested? If you did you should realize that you can take the CLI8BK to your Canon dealer and tell them it is defective because it won't do what the manual says it will.

I just downloaded the new user guide a moment ago and will be reading it. I am really not too sure if I can really take back to Canon.