CLI-8 Cartridges, How does the chip really monitor ink?

[Sirman]

Just picked up the following post on the printer newsgroup - anyone tried this?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 4 pins on the chip: Vcc, GND, CLK and Data. The GND pin is the
longest one, the second from the left. I put a tape on this GND pin to make
it not contacted, but the cartridge still works fine. The cartridge is
recognized; the red light is on; the printer is still able to write to the
chip (yes, I confirmed this).

I also tried to cut off all the traces to this GND pin (see the picture),
the same.

What's going on? How could any electronics work without a return ground?

http://lh4.google.com/fixup77/R8tZNofu6zI/AAAAAAAAAN0/Sb27A3OO4Q0/s800/IMGP0221.JPG

The only reason i could think of is a internal connection to the CLK pin . Infact measuring the 4 pins in the cardrige adopter : ( from the right to the left ) the Vcc has 3.3 volt with the Ground , the CLK pole also make 3.3 V and a 1.65 volt brige with the Data pin. :/

 

[Sirman]

I would like to mention that the measuring of the ink leavel is not only done by the cardrige chip . Look what i have found , this senson light measure controls the right position of the cardriges so you always put it in right position. I also think this is the indicator for the ink niveau ( the only one ?), it is (in my opinion) intern active with the chip light that always shines trou the inkcardrige.

-Picture one is the rail with the ink sensor ( see arrow )
-Picture two a cut through the cardrige showing the light gateway ,
-Picture three is a Block Diagram, the ink sensor is located on the left (almost at the bottom)

 

[websnail]

-Picture three is a Block Diagram, the ink sensor is located on the left (almost at the bottom)

There are actually two sensors and prisms used by the Canon systems.

The first is the prism and sensor that you've identified in the bottom of the cartridge with the sensor in the metal rail.

The second sensor uses the prism on the front of the cartridge (above the chip), with the sensor being that little post that sticks up in the printer and appears in your internal workings shot.


Net effect is that the printer uses both to detect whether the cartridge is positioned correctly (ie: pushed in properly) and the LED is functioning or not.



Got confirmation of this from Sam at RIHAC.

 

[Sirman]

-Picture three is a Block Diagram, the ink sensor is located on the left (almost at the bottom)

There are actually two sensors and prisms used by the Canon systems.

The first is the prism and sensor that you've identified in the bottom of the cartridge with the sensor in the metal rail.

Correct that is, the sensor in the rail and the prisma in the bottom of the cardrige .

The second sensor uses the prism on the front of the cartridge (above the chip), with the sensor being that little post that sticks up in the printer and appears in your internal workings shot.

The second sensor in the rail you mean .. uses the front our .. mean the top of the cardrige ? .. only both sensors can measure that is one for the maximal and one is for the minimal levels . A rail in situation at one moment : one sensor receives a diffuse light while the other has a sharp light in the middle of the sensor at one moment in /rail-distance under the cardrige. When both sensors receive the same brightness then clearly the cardrige is empty , When one has some light but the other still dark , the cardrige is say , half full.. I think the two rail sensors are split for this reason and your correct to identify and stop at a right position . :/

I think .. that the neutral chips only receive a colour code when inserted for the first time .. in relation with the railsensor .. Then the user countdown can go on in the new markert chip .

My opinion : the cardrige chip print itself and the led are not able to measure any level because the light is to bright to know when there is a change in the ink level , in other words , the light goes only out and never received by a sensor there , this sensor simple dont excist on the chip !

Net effect is that the printer uses both to detect whether the cartridge is positioned correctly (ie: pushed in properly) and the LED is functioning or not.

Mayby talking about the same thing but it is clearer now .. you know the alternative i thinking of wont work .. but i have a nother ink level solution i give it tomorrow , this will work if you dont beeing affraid .. !

Got confirmation of this from Sam at RIHAC.

 

[Sirman]

[fotofreek]

Just picked up the following post on the printer newsgroup - anyone tried this?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 4 pins on the chip: Vcc, GND, CLK and Data. The GND pin is the longest one, the second from the left. I put a tape on this GND pin to make it not contacted, but the cartridge still works fine. The cartridge is
recognized; the red light is on; the printer is still able to write to the chip (yes, I confirmed this).

I also tried to cut off all the traces to this GND pin (see the picture), the same.

What's going on? How could any electronics work without a return ground?


I done a research ..

Oooh I see a mistake here , If you look again to the picture that confused us see below .... the CLK with the Data pin uhmm this is not right .. i have found that photo one is a wrong copie ... see the differance :

The confusing picture !

The true real picture !

And your picture :

The 4 pins ( in the cardrige adopter ) and your picture , starts from the right to the left

1 - Vcc is on ( pin 1 )
2 - Vcc makes 3.3 volt with the DATA ( Pin 2 )
3 - Vcc makes 3.3 volt with the GND ( pin 3 )
4 - Vcc makes a 1.65 volt brige with the CLK ( pin 4 )

I be able to look into the printer ( canon ip4300 ) after some difficulty removing the sheath but good to know this has almost the same lip / klik places ( 6 ) as a ip4200 PDF document shows .

.. I used a ohm meter and suprisely the DATA pin has 102 ohm at the end of the line ( flatcable) ..
- I found out that the right pins of the cardrigeadopter , ( the 3,3 volt VCC) is afailable in not one but split in two lines in the finnest ( disconected ) flatcable .
- The (Ground) GRD is in connected in two of the 3 cables , 1 in the finnest flat cable and 5 in the other .

These photo explaining pictures are so wrong .. sorry
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1506&p=1

 

[nanosec]

Just wanted to add to this discussion.

I just got my hands on a resetter for the CLI8 set.


Here's my results:


Cartridges taken from a ip4300 machine cannot be reset for IP4300 series at ALL.

it doesn't matter if the cartridge is placed in a entirely different IP4300 it will NOT read full. It will act full at first plug in, then as it slides home
the printer reads something from the chip and says "oh wait, it appears your cart is empty"

The other machine I tested was an MP500, the cartridges work perfectly fine if reset and placed into it.

Alternately, an old cartridge from a MP500 will reset and work fine in an Ip4300.


Because I use mostly Ip4300s it appears I just bought a resetter for no good reason unless I want to go around buying up old carts.


I will be more than happy to post close ups of my resetter, including the PCB when I have time. Two of the chips are covered by a plastic substance, I guess in order to hide their identity.

 

[lin]

Just wanted to add to this discussion.

I just got my hands on a resetter for the CLI8 set.


Here's my results:


Cartridges taken from a ip4300 machine cannot be reset for IP4300 series at ALL.

it doesn't matter if the cartridge is placed in a entirely different IP4300 it will NOT read full. It will act full at first plug in, then as it slides home
the printer reads something from the chip and says "oh wait, it appears your cart is empty"

The other machine I tested was an MP500, the cartridges work perfectly fine if reset and placed into it.

Alternately, an old cartridge from a MP500 will reset and work fine in an Ip4300.


Because I use mostly Ip4300s it appears I just bought a resetter for no good reason unless I want to go around buying up old carts.


I will be more than happy to post close ups of my resetter, including the PCB when I have time. Two of the chips are covered by a plastic substance, I guess in order to hide their identity.

Hi Are you also having this chip I reported under this thread, post #23.

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2445&p=3

My local seller told me that his customers had reported that the new batches of chips cartridges cannot be refilled. I am not sure how true is that. But as of now, I only encounter this problem with CLI8BK chips which is not exactly new batches. I think I bought them in early 2007 from different store but I can't quite remember when I bought it. However, my colored ones reset/accept warranty just fine. Except that sirman seems to have problem with the colored one as well according to his reply #24.

 

[Sirman]

Just wanted to add to this discussion.

I just got my hands on a resetter for the CLI8 set.


Here's my results:

Cartridges taken from a ip4300 machine cannot be reset for IP4300 series at ALL.

it doesn't matter if the cartridge is placed in a entirely different IP4300 it will NOT read full. It will act full at first plug in, then as it slides home
the printer reads something from the chip and says "oh wait, it appears your cart is empty"

The other machine I tested was an MP500, the cartridges work perfectly fine if reset and placed into it.

Alternately, an old cartridge from a MP500 will reset and work fine in an Ip4300.

Because I use mostly Ip4300s it appears I just bought a resetter for no good reason unless I want to go around buying up old carts.

A Very nasty discovery and I know your right ! I dont know what is the course of this, mayby the software (update) is changed to drop the new reset cardriges who knows . To Lin , correct , indeed i have all 4 dimmend after flashing when first time checked by the printer and i can not make a reset, the cardriges are nor recotnised ! ( I hope we dont have a hidden virus in the memory hardware !

Anyway , i beening buzzy and wait for a secondhand IP4300 canon i get this tomorow i was promist, and uhmm well .. i changest my uploaded picture with the lip names on the backside of the chip . ( It appaires this was not good .. sorry my fault

 

[lin]

Just wanted to add to this discussion.

I just got my hands on a resetter for the CLI8 set.


Here's my results:

Cartridges taken from a ip4300 machine cannot be reset for IP4300 series at ALL.

it doesn't matter if the cartridge is placed in a entirely different IP4300 it will NOT read full. It will act full at first plug in, then as it slides home
the printer reads something from the chip and says "oh wait, it appears your cart is empty"

The other machine I tested was an MP500, the cartridges work perfectly fine if reset and placed into it.

Alternately, an old cartridge from a MP500 will reset and work fine in an Ip4300.

Because I use mostly Ip4300s it appears I just bought a resetter for no good reason unless I want to go around buying up old carts.

A Very nasty discovery and I know your right ! I dont know what is the course of this, mayby the software (update) is changed to drop the new reset cardriges who knows . To Lin , correct , indeed i have all 4 dimmend after flashing when first time checked by the printer and i can not make a reset, the cardriges are nor recotnised ! ( I hope we dont have a hidden virus in the memory hardware !

Anyway , i beening buzzy and wait for a secondhand IP4300 canon i get this tomorow i was promist, and uhmm well .. i changest my uploaded picture with the lip names on the backside of the chip . ( It appaires this was not good .. sorry my fault

My chip can be recognized. I do not have the error message of chip cartridge not being recognized (as shown in the Fig 2 picture of the thread, post #23 http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2445&p=3). Rather the reset/accept warranty void option was removed in this chip as shown in photo, Fig 1. It stucked at that Fig 1 message prompt to replace the canon ink tank and will not proceed to the usual message to accept warranty void. Similarly attempting to reset via the resume/stop button was not possible.

What you are saying in the above reply here is that your colored chip cartridges are not recognized. It's totally different. I do not know whether you are using refill to Canon OEM cartridge or compatible canon cartridges. If you are using compatible canon cartridges where you transfer the chip, the error message of 'ink tank not recognized' can happened due to the chip not properly sitted or inline with the sensor and that is not the chips with remove reset/accept warranty void option.

 

[Sirman]

What you are saying in the above reply here is that your colored chip cartridges are not recognized. It's totally different. I do not know whether you are using refill to Canon OEM cartridge or compatible canon cartridges. If you are using compatible canon cartridges where you transfer the chip, the error message of 'ink tank not recognized' can happened due to the chip not properly sitted or inline with the sensor and that is not the chips with remove reset/accept warranty void option.

Humm mayby but unlikely , i looked at that and 4 is a lot ! but I can not check anymore ... the chips are original Canon and reset twice i think. Posibllity : mayby there is a control line that is broken i will see but can compare this tomorrow ..