CLI-8 Cartridges, How does the chip really monitor ink?

[lin]

What you are saying in the above reply here is that your colored chip cartridges are not recognized. It's totally different. I do not know whether you are using refill to Canon OEM cartridge or compatible canon cartridges. If you are using compatible canon cartridges where you transfer the chip, the error message of 'ink tank not recognized' can happened due to the chip not properly sitted or inline with the sensor and that is not the chips with remove reset/accept warranty void option.

Humm mayby but unlikely , i looked at that and 4 is a lot ! but I can not check anymore ... the chips are original Canon and reset twice i think. Posibllity : mayby there is a control line that is broken i will see but can compare this tomorrow ..

Yes, I know your chips are original Canon Chip. But what I am asking is whether that the chips are stay intact to Canon OEM cartridge without any removal or You transfer these original canon chips to use on other compatible canon cartridge. My point is that a workable chips on compatible cartridges, 'the ink tank not recognized' can sometime happened if you transfer the original canon chip to compatible canon cartridges where the contact with sensor was not sitted properly just like the picture Fig 2 in that thread.

My other sets of chip cartridges (which was the earlier batch) that was able to reset are also dimmed. I just simply lose the level monitor with a dimmed chip cartridges. Not a problem at all. Since I just manually check the ink level.

What the problem was with the new batch of CLI8BK chip on OEM cartridge that was programmed in such a way that the accept warranty void option at the dialogue prompt was removed and reset via resume/stop button was not possible as well. This is totally different from 'ink tank not recognized' which I am not encountering.

 

[websnail]

What the problem was with the new batch of CLI8BK chip on OEM cartridge that was programmed in such a way that the accept warranty void option at the dialogue prompt was removed and reset via resume/stop button was not possible as well. This is totally different from 'ink tank not recognized' which I am not encountering.

Can I just check the setup you have there so I can gauge the results you're getting.

1. What printers are you using to test this and how many of each printer?
2. When you talk about this new "batch" of CLI8BK cartridges, how old are they and is there any way to tell the dates they were manufactured?
3. As you mentioned above, have you been leaving these chips on the original OEM cartridges and not moving them to a 3rd party cartridge?
4. Have you refilled the CLI8BK cartridge before you attempt to reuse it and try to get the warranty message?


The first 3 are self explanatory, but question 4 is relevant because I've found that if you try a genuinely empty cartridge it won't ever give you the warranty message until you refill and it detects it. Probably a dumb question but worth asking to be sure

Thanks in advance.

 

[lin]

What the problem was with the new batch of CLI8BK chip on OEM cartridge that was programmed in such a way that the accept warranty void option at the dialogue prompt was removed and reset via resume/stop button was not possible as well. This is totally different from 'ink tank not recognized' which I am not encountering.

Can I just check the setup you have there so I can gauge the results you're getting.

1. What printers are you using to test this and how many of each printer?
2. When you talk about this new "batch" of CLI8BK cartridges, how old are they and is there any way to tell the dates they were manufactured?
3. As you mentioned above, have you been leaving these chips on the original OEM cartridges and not moving them to a 3rd party cartridge?
4. Have you refilled the CLI8BK cartridge before you attempt to reuse it and try to get the warranty message?


The first 3 are self explanatory, but question 4 is relevant because I've found that if you try a genuinely empty cartridge it won't ever give you the warranty message until you refill and it detects it. Probably a dumb question but worth asking to be sure

Thanks in advance.

Hi Try reading the thread where I provided the link at the post here #147. I had already covered quite detailed at that thread. Note, the CLI8BK chip (later batch) with the said problem is on OEM Canon Cartridge and has never be transferred or removed out from the OEM cartridge.

 

[websnail]

Hi Try reading the thread where I provided the link at the post here #147. I had already covered quite detailed at that thread. Note, the CLI8BK chip (later batch) with the said problem is on OEM Canon Cartridge and has never be transferred or removed out from the OEM cartridge.

Ah, ok... checked that link and you did provide all the information there with one exception... Do you have a specific date for the batch at all? Anything on the box for example..

EDIT: You also haven't specified which printer(s) you've been working with... That would be useful too.


Just as a quick note this sounds a lot like the issue that Marine reported over on inksupply.com where tanks were refusing to reset although it was never tied down specifically to the 8BK before now but it does sound like it's related.

All in all a damned shame because I started this thread:
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2488

... some months back to check if the original issue was indeed true and everyone has been coming back with "no, not me" until now.

Not good news... Thanks for reporting it though...

 

[lin]

Hi Try reading the thread where I provided the link at the post here #147. I had already covered quite detailed at that thread. Note, the CLI8BK chip (later batch) with the said problem is on OEM Canon Cartridge and has never be transferred or removed out from the OEM cartridge.

Ah, ok... checked that link and you did provide all the information there with one exception... Do you have a specific date for the batch at all? Anything on the box for example..

EDIT: You also haven't specified which printer(s) you've been working with... That would be useful too.


Just as a quick note this sounds a lot like the issue that Marine reported over on inksupply.com where tanks were refusing to reset although it was never tied down specifically to the 8BK before now but it does sound like it's related.

All in all a damned shame because I started this thread:
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2488

... some months back to check if the original issue was indeed true and everyone has been coming back with "no, not me" until now.

Not good news... Thanks for reporting it though...

My Printer is about 2 years old, not the new model. My one and only printer.

That later batch of OEM cartridges were purchased last year as mentioned at post #147. Exact date I couldn't remember, all I remember was early 2007 (maybe between Apr-Jun 2007). Seriously I couldn't remember when they were bought. Who would keep the box purchased early last year? Oh, well, I don't know. I might still have the box or I don't. I have the habit of keeping thing which I think they will be useful some day and throw them away when they are really proven to be useless. If I still have the box or could remember where they were kept, I will update again.

I had read the thread (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2488) you started before quite sometime back. Just like everyone else, when I read such report, I usually dismiss either that the user doesn't know how to reset or the chip is damaged when they transfer chip to another compatible cartridge or all other sort of reasons. I was sceptical even when the seller from our local store told me that his customers feedback to him that their canon cartridges cannot be refilled (just read the full story at that link provided at post #147 here). Afterall, my first sets reset just fine so I had a hard time comprehending/visualizing what the seller was describing until I had this chip myself.

I am not too sure if this phenomenon only inflict one particular batch of CLI8BK or if the seller is right about the latest/future batches of canon cartridges chip. Because it may just take one chip (CLI8BK) programmed without reset/accept warranty void option to disguise and make user think that there is no way to reuse chip for refill especially if this problem CLI8BK chip is trigger with replacement ink tank message first. However, according to sirman, he had the same reset problem with his colored chips as well. I only encountered this problem chip with CLI8BK and my colored ones are not affected probably due to another batches or for other unknown reason. So I couldn't comment on the colored chips.

 

[pebe]

Lin, you mentioned in earlier postings of 'resetting' the chips. Did you actually use a chip resetter, or did you just refill and try to over-ride the warning notices?

 

[lin]

Lin, you mentioned in earlier postings of 'resetting' the chips. Did you actually use a chip resetter, or did you just refill and try to over-ride the warning notices?

Another one? Try reading the thread which I provided the link at the post here #147 as I had covered all the details at that thread. I wonder how did you guys read to think that I had use a chip resetter. Because if I had use any chip resetter I would have mentioned that in that linked up thread as well as all the previous posts here (at this thread).

 

[websnail]

My Printer is about 2 years old, not the new model. My one and only printer.

Ok... but which model? iP4200? I can't find any reference to which one you're using anywhere (and I've been reading believe me)

Also to confirm 100% this is with ONE printer, you have not tried this on any other models, friends, colleagues, etc... correct?

That later batch of OEM cartridges were purchased last year as mentioned at post #147. Exact date I couldn't remember, all I remember was early 2007 (maybe between Apr-Jun 2007). Seriously I couldn't remember when they were bought. Who would keep the box purchased early last year?

LOL... Ok, at least the date of purchase helps a little... That timing would coincide with Marines post or there abouts... It may be that there was a duff batch of chips or a "test" by Canon to see what would happen... Who knows on that score... but thanks for at least clearing that bit up

I had read the thread (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2488) you started before quite sometime back. Just like everyone else, when I read such report, I usually dismiss either that the user doesn't know how to reset or the chip is damaged when they transfer chip to another compatible cartridge or all other sort of reasons.

In fairness, you are complaining that people aren't reading your threads properly but you aren't carrying out your own research to see what background we've had (eg: my thread that as you admitted, you dismissed despite the fact that I have 2+ years of posting under my belt).. Not a complaint, just a note. We're not all avid readers with memories like elephants

I was sceptical even when the seller from our local store told me that his customers feedback to him that their canon cartridges cannot be refilled (just read the full story at that link provided at post #147 here). Afterall, my first sets reset just fine so I had a hard time comprehending/visualizing what the seller was describing until I had this chip myself.

Yeah, in truth I was just as confused by Marine's report hence that thread of mine asking for other reports.. After all Marine's being providing the kits commercially (well his company has) so that's why I wanted to be sure... Actually I suppose I was skeptical too... Oops! :blush:

I am not too sure if this phenomenon only inflict one particular batch of CLI8BK or if the seller is right about the latest/future batches of canon cartridges chip. Because it may just take one chip (CLI8BK) programmed without reset/accept warranty void option to disguise and make user think that there is no way to reuse chip for refill especially if this problem CLI8BK chip is trigger with replacement ink tank message first. However, according to sirman, he had the same reset problem with his colored chips as well. I only encountered this problem chip with CLI8BK and my colored ones are not affected probably due to another batches or for other unknown reason. So I couldn't comment on the colored chips.

I'm beginning to think that the issue is either localised to one particular country or there was a batch of chips that were put out that had this change to see what would happen... There may also have been a bad batch. I believe that Sirman's issues are related to bad placement of the chips on non-OEM cartridges but that's a guess...



Just to note, having read back through your posts on the subject you do provide a LOT of information which is very much appreciated.. I'll try to ensure I read all the references you provide in future Thanks again..

 

[lin]

In fairness, you are complaining that people aren't reading your threads properly but you aren't carrying out your own research to see what background we've had (eg: my thread that as you admitted, you dismissed despite the fact that I have 2+ years of posting under my belt).. Not a complaint, just a note. We're not all avid readers with memories like elephants

I think you misunderstood. I had read your that thread you started for quite sometime regarding canon printer refill/ciss capable though I apparently only joined this forum recently. And I had read quite a fair bit of threads at this forum. When I said I dismissed just like everyone else that notion of chip being unable to reset/accept void warranty option just like everyone else, I am not referring to your thread you started on 'canon printer refill/ciss capable'. I was referring to the linked I provided at post #147 here. I dismissed not because I had not done any research but basically those who own IP4300 reported and replied to keastman's thread were that they do not have reset/accept warranty void issue with IP4300. So it's human nature that I dismissed that notion along with the rest of the member who replied to keastman. And I can only take the word of those who owned IP4300 and their replied to keastman's thread since I don't own IP4300. And my reply to keastman's thread was that despite that I don't own IP4300 I am also having the same problem as he encountered.

I think the confusion take place because I said I dismissed just like everyone right after I had mentioned I had read your thread on 'canon printer refill/ciss capable' (see lin's quote below). It's my fault that my sentence was lumped together and I didn't state clearly that I was referring to keastman's post.

I had read the thread (http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2488) you started before quite sometime back. Just like everyone else, when I read such report, I usually dismiss either that the user doesn't know how to reset or the chip is damaged when they transfer chip to another compatible cartridge or all other sort of reasons.

I'm beginning to think that the issue is either localised to one particular country or there was a batch of chips that were put out that had this change to see what would happen... There may also have been a bad batch. I believe that Sirman's issues are related to bad placement of the chips on non-OEM cartridges but that's a guess...

You could be right that it may be due to location, a test batch by canon to test market reaction etc, a bad batch or other reasons etc. I have not come to my own conclusion yet. I am just glad that I had one batch (older batch) that I could use to refill. As for Sirman's issue, I am not too sure if he using Canon Original Chip on Original Canon Cartridges or place these Original Chip on Compatible Canon cartridges (ie non-OEM carts). So I couldn't comment on his experience except that according to him his colored chips had the same issue.

 

[lin]

Just wanted to add to this discussion.

I just got my hands on a resetter for the CLI8 set.


Here's my results:


Cartridges taken from a ip4300 machine cannot be reset for IP4300 series at ALL.

it doesn't matter if the cartridge is placed in a entirely different IP4300 it will NOT read full. It will act full at first plug in, then as it slides home
the printer reads something from the chip and says "oh wait, it appears your cart is empty"

The other machine I tested was an MP500, the cartridges work perfectly fine if reset and placed into it.

Alternately, an old cartridge from a MP500 will reset and work fine in an Ip4300.


Because I use mostly Ip4300s it appears I just bought a resetter for no good reason unless I want to go around buying up old carts.


I will be more than happy to post close ups of my resetter, including the PCB when I have time. Two of the chips are covered by a plastic substance, I guess in order to hide their identity.

By the way, just wanted to mention, if you refilled ink into these set of chips cartridges originally taken from IP4300 which you have resetted with a chip resetter and use them on another IP4300 or MP500 machines, (not sure if it was true) I remember I read from one member that said it will detect full ink in these printers initially until a point where these machines started registering the use of these chips and subsequently recorded this chip as empty or low ink. This may explain why when you reset the chips with a resetter and use them on MP500 the first time, 'the cartridges work perfectly fine if reset and placed into it'. Since this is the first time the MP500 identified/registered these chips.

As such, you may like to re-simulate your scenario with the same chip cartridges which had been recorded and recognised by the MP500 during your previous test. To see if another round of reset with chip resetter on these same chips that had been already been registered by MP500 before whether the MP500 is able to accept the reset with resetter and providing full ink level again.

You maybe have the same problem chips like what I had experienced for my CLI8BK chip at the thread which I linked at the post here #147. So it may recognised as full after a refill on another printer the first time as it register the use of the chip until the ink level run low/empty and trigger the 'Replace of Ink Tank' message for which perpetually refused to allow reset via resume/stop button or provide the option of accepting warranty void. However, I can't test this theory myself since I only had one printer. But it was said that it was possible for chips used on one machine to be detected with full ink level initially the first time on another machine until like I said it also start to register the use of the chips. So pls do your own test and derive your own conclusion.