How NOT to fail with the German Refilling method

[fish]

panos,
I totally agree with your post - have used this method for a years with success (with all of your don't). Have worn out a MP830 and am currently refilling a i9900 and MX850. Only problem I had was the mess created my refilling a non-empty cartridge (don't #3) once - changed my ways.

 

[Redbrickman]

I can't understand why trying to fill a non-empty cart would be a problem?

Using the German refill method the cart is filled close to the top of the reservoir, then the cart is rested to allow the sponge to absorb ink.

The next stage is to top up the reservoir again. This second top up seems to be to be no different from topping up a part used cart.

Or have I missed something?

 

[marceltho]

I agree with panos as well, on all his points. I have no experience with non-OEM carts, as after reading all the posts on this forum I started using only OEM carts with my printers.
There was only one time the small refill hole leaked ink, and that was because I did not hot-glue the purge hole on top correctly.
Since then, after purging and hot-glueing the top purge-hole, I set the cart aside after the first refill for about 20 minutes, and if it doesn't leak then, IT WILL NEVER LEAK INK !
So I never tape the refill hole, there is no need to do so, but if others feel more comfotable to do so.....it won't hurt I guess, but it is not a remedy for the problem.

I bet the carts who had problems with leaking ink through the refill hole, were all carts that were badly closed on top.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Here is one of those leaking reports. Tape is used.

But there's no reason to think that tape caused the leak. The leak was caused by drilling the hole at the bottom of the cartridge (your point #5), and possibly by making quite a large hole through the bottom of the sponge. Look at this video, which shows how the hole was created: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ghw_XoBmCo . Do you see how far the awl was pushed into the cartridge, and how large a path it created? EDIT: In the next message, ghwellsjr provides another similar explanation for what caused the leak.

If you really want to see whether tape causes leaks, then take one of your cartridges that never leaks, and put tape over the hole. I don't think you'll be able to cause a leak that way. Just make sure you follow your own (very excellent) best practices except for the tape.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Since I have switched over to the Freedom method, I really have lost interest in doing the German method anymore but I see that not only have I violated rules 1, 3, 4, 5 & 6, I have been a heavy promoter of violating those rules. Of course, they weren't ever stated as rules until now. But I have questions regarding these rules:

Rule 1: My original reason for sealing the refill hole was to prevent drying of the ink inside the cartridge. I did a test where I proved that the ink will dry out faster with the hole unsealed vs sealed. But it takes a long time so it won't matter if you are refilling all your cartridge every three months or so.

Although I had tape on the refill hole on the cartridge that leaked (and an orange cap held on with a rubber band over the outlet port), it continued to leak even after the tape was removed. This was a very slow leak and the level of the ink in the reservoir was down. It didn't start to leak until several weeks after it had been refilled. No one is going to prove that a cartridge won't leak by refilling and setting it aside for twenty minutes. I am not convinced that the tape had anything to do with the leak and I don't use cartridges that have had holes in the reservoir.

I still don't know why the cartridge leaked but my best guess is that I did something that probably should be another rule--in order to get the needle over the lip at the entrance to the reservoir, I would bend the needle up and down to get the end to lift off the bottom of the cartridge. This undoubtedly created a larger path for ink to leak out from the bottom of reservoir to the refill hole. And I use 18-gauge needles which are larger than the 20-gauge needles that some other people use.

So if you are going to make the refill hole above the bottom of the cartridge, that means the needle will have to pierce the sponge, correct? And that means you need to use a sharp needle, correct? And if you use a sharp needle, it will be easier to get the needle over the lip simply by rotating it, correct?

So don't you need a rule concerning the size of the needle and that it should be sharp?

Rule 3: I typically only refill virgin cartridges and they are very dry. Would this rule still apply in this case? I only did one test using the German method to see if the ink would saturate the entire bottom of the sponge if I did not inject ink into it and it did not go all the way over to the side where the refill hole was although it did cover the outlet port. I was concerned that this would provide an easy air path from an unsealed refill hole to the outlet port resulting in "ink flow" problems. So should you have a rule to never use old dry virgin cartridges or at least further explanation when using them? Of course this doesn't apply for most people who are refilling the cartridges that came with their printer as soon as they become empty.

Rule 4: What do you mean by "empty"? Do you mean the reservoir is empty or do you mean the printer is reporting the cartridge is empty which happens a long time later? What about those people that don't have a resetter and have a disabled level sensor? I'm sure you're not suggesting that they print until a color runs out of ink but you need to provide instructions on what they are supposed to do and it needs to cover opaque cartridges too.

Rule 5: To repeat, does this require a sharp needle? And what size needle?

Rule 6: With the German method, I have never understood why this is a concern. With top filling, it can oversaturate the sponge but not with the German method. For people who are still using cartridges without chips, why not fill the reservoir to the max? And for people who are using the newer printers, even if it is pointless, how can it be a problem? And if you are going to have this rule, you need to state how full the reservoir should be, such as between half and three-quarters full or something like, leave about a quarter of an inch of air in the reservoir. And for those who have opaque cartridges, how are they supposed to know when to quit?

Please accept these suggestions as ways to improve your rules, not as criticism of the German method.

 

[Tom Hock]

I agree with post #12 by Redbrickman that filling a partially emptied ink tank is not a problem, for all the reasons he mentioned. There could be some problem resetting chips that haven't reached the empty signal yet, but I don't know about this, but it is not a problem with #3 and #6 tanks, and I have never run into any problem refilling #8 and #5 chipped tanks in two stages (Redbrickman's point).
I thought there would be some comments on my concern of drawing air into the refill hole during the operation of the purge pump (my post #5 above). This is something that would not be detectable, except perhaps some nozzle plugging or faulty prime after installing a new tank, and a generally decreased efficiency of the purge unit (if air does get sucked in). To keep all systems working at maximum efficiency, as intended, why not put a small patch of electrical tape over the refill hole? It is no cost, easy insurance.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I did a test where I proved that the ink will dry out faster with the hole unsealed vs sealed.

So close the hole. The long channel at the vent was engineered for a reason. EDIT: The preceding remark was obviously not directed at ghwellsjr.

...it continued to leak even after the tape was removed....

There's your answer. Tape didn't cause the leak, but it did fail to prevent it.

 

[Tigerman]

is this method can be used for HP 920 cartidge???? please anyone help

 

[panos]

ghwellsjr thanks for the response

The reason I made those points is that I searched the forum extensively this last couple of days and I found out that many people are doing various modifications in the method but they all post problems under the umbrella name "German" or "Durchstich". I find this unfair to new users because the method works perfectly well for me and, as it seems, to others.

It's unnecessary to provide more information about the required type or the size of the needle as it is clearly shown on Pharmacist's illustrated instructions. The instructions are also quite clear as to how and where ink should be injected.

Of course one may wish to modify or add new steps but I believe problems should not be blamed on the original method then but rather on the modified versions.

That's the point.

 

[panos]

I can't understand why trying to fill a non-empty cart would be a problem?

Using the German refill method the cart is filled close to the top of the reservoir, then the cart is rested to allow the sponge to absorb ink.

The next stage is to top up the reservoir again. This second top up seems to be to be no different from topping up a part used cart.

I believe it has to do with ink distribution. On empty cartridges, the second topping is OK because ink is not yet fully distributed on the sponge thus allowing air to escape.

On some non-empty cartridges the sponge is fully saturated with ink and perhaps that's the reason ink spills out of the air path, the exit port and even the refill hole.

Whatever it is, the problem as described by Fish Chris had affected me as well.