Help wtih Canon i560

[emerald]

Trigger: Thanks for the Kudos.

In post #25 of this string I said " I discount the purge system as being the source of the cross contamination." The first part of the paragraph explained my logic for this conclusion. I had put the suspected print head in three different printers with the same result: that after setting with no activity for a half hour, the yellow on the four color bar chart started out orange and tended to clean up toward the end of the print-out. After reading your logic what I should have said was; that the purge system was not the CAUSE of the contamination, but it could be the SOURCE. I remember one forum member suggested to someone having a similar problem to park the head in the center instead of the purge pads for a half hour. I did, and there was NO contamination. But then I thought the reason was because the system probably did a cleaning after setting unparked for a half hour, making the test moot. What I'm thinking now is some anomaly in the print head set up a slight vacuum in the yellow channel and sucked up a little magenta from the purge pad. Whatever I did by taking the print head apart and flushing it cleared up the cause of the problem. Who knows? It might come back!

The biggest reason I gave up on HP printers are the headaches you are coming to grips with now - that refilling HP color cartridges is a crap shoot.

 

[leo8088]

Chobo2, your ink contamination problem is caused by problems in your ink cartridges. How did you refill your cartridges? If you use screws or plugs to reseal make sure they are tight. I have seen contamination problems many times by people who refilled themselves. The quick fix has been always just threw away those cartridges and use new OEM carts. Well, new OEM carts are costly so you may want to check your cartridges to see if you can find which one is offending. The trick is to find which color is contaminated by which. The one that contaminates others is the one that is leaked. Check or replace just the cartridge of the offending color should fix the problem for you.

 

[embguy]

I am working on a Canon i560 and a i850 with the exact symptom as emerald's i560.

After doing a cleaning cycle, all colors are normal.

After let it sits for 30 minutes, magenta ink is getting into the yellow.

I have read emerald's post #29 on this thread over and over. My conclusion: What emerald did was a thorough cleaning the ink path from the ink inlets through the internal channels and the nozzles.

On post #26, "Trigger 37" had commented that emerald's problem was clogged nozzles and not cross contamination.

I like to hear your comments on my conclusion before doing anything.

 

[Trigger 37]

embguy,... I don't think I told him he had clogged nozzles. In fact, once he printed his test pattern similar to yours I told him the cross contamination was coming from the pads.

For your case, you can clearly see what the problem is. Lets say you start out with cleaning the printhead outside of the machine and you get it really clean. Then you install it in the printer and you HAVE to run a cleaning cycle there (or the printer will do it for you) just to PRIME THE HEAD WITH NEW INK (since all of it was washed out). Now that it is primied you print a nozzle check and everything comes out perfect, as in the test print you attached. Now it sets for awhile. In you case the Magenta ink cart is leaking too much ink or when you PRIMMED it excessive Magenta ink was left on the ink pad. After "N" hours this Magenta will "Wick" to the nearest nozzle and mix with the very small amount of ink that is in those nozzles. Once it has "Wicked" there you have contamination. The next thing you know you print something and the first half of the yellow come out to be a mixture of Magenta and Yellow, which will make a yellowish brown color. As you continue to print this contaminated ink all gets used up and good yellow finally refills all of the nozzles and pretty soon you are back to a solid yellow.

So what is the problem???? Let me guess,.. the new ink cart you put in,... was it "Magenta". Was it a different brand. Was it one you had just refilled. Did you use the "German Method" for refilling?

In the meantime, use a paper towel and blot all the excess ink out of the pads so you can stop what ever wicking is going on.

All of this sounds very simple but there are 10 other ways to create the same problem, but the one I described happens most of the time. You should also check the ink wells just below the ink carts to see if there is excess ink there.

The only other way I've witnessed severe wicking is with a head that I had taken apart. The internal silicone seal between the ceramic and the ink cart filter plate was damaged and leaked magenta into the yellow ink inside the printhead. I had to dump that head.

I'll be waiting to hear more from you on this.

 

[embguy]

Trigger 37,
Thank you for the detailed analysis. It is not a internal leak between the magenta and yellow. Otherwise, both the magenta and yellow will have the same color - brown.

The magenta cartridge is a generic compatible cartridge. It is half full at the moment. This cartridge has not been refilled.

The dye color ink pad looks dry. It looks similar to that right after a cleaning cycle. But look may be deceiving...

The purge system is working. I flooded both purge pads with Windex. After a cleaning cycle, the Windex was drained away.

I put a tape over the breath hole of the magenta cartridge to reduce the flow. Do a cleaning cycle. Leave it overnight. Will report back the result.

I have a few empty virgin OEM Canon magenta cartridge. I do not have 2" needle. Tomorrow, I will refill a magenta cartridge using the traditional method - hole on the reservoir side.

 

[Trigger 37]

embguy,.... I hope you did not misunderstand me. Tape over the aiir intake for the magena will stop all ink flow. Are you thinking that the magenta ink cart has a small air leak somewhere and this is how you can test it. If it is a compatible, look very close at it. Some of the companies use old Canon OEM carts for refilling. Some use a copy. Get rid of all of them and use only Canon ink carts and refill yourself with only the best ink by removing the plastic ball that blocks the fill hole. Use a good stainless steel screw to seal the hole air tight.

I don't know why you would want a 2" needle. You don't ever want to use the German Refill method. I believe that this method is the source of many cross containination problems as it totally modifies the ink flow system designed by Canon and upsets the balance of Vacuum inside the ink flow path.

If you believe that none of what I have told you is correct, the only other possibility is that you printhead is leaking internally. How else would you explain magenta getting into the yellow. What process did you use the last time you cleaned your printhead?

One other item to chech since we are talking about a very old printer. Check the rubber pads next to each filter screen. They have to make a good seal against the ink cart or this could introduce problems and leaks.

If you look close at the bottom of the printhead, the nozzle bank for the yellow is very close to the nozzle bank of the magenta. It doesn't take much for a little ink to go from one to the other.

 

[embguy]

embguy,.... I hope you did not misunderstand me. Tape over the aiir intake for the magena will stop all ink flow. Are you thinking that the magenta ink cart has a small air leak somewhere and this is how you can test it.

I did not misunderstand you. I think the magenta cartridge delivers more ink to the purge pad while idle which causes the "wicking" action. It was late at night. Just cover the breathing hole for a quick test over night. But it does not stop the slow leak.

If you believe that none of what I have told you is correct, the only other possibility is that you printhead is leaking internally. How else would you explain magenta getting into the yellow. What process did you use the last time you cleaned your printhead?

What you said makes sense. Otherwise the printout will have two brownish column. I used Windex to clean the print head.

If you look close at the bottom of the printhead, the nozzle bank for the yellow is very close to the nozzle bank of the magenta. It doesn't take much for a little ink to go from one to the other.

It is dry at the bottom of the print head around the inlet screen area.

I will refill one of my empty OEM magenta cartridge later today and will report back. Thanks.

 

[Trigger 37]

embguy,... I just noticed all of the Canon printers that you have. By now YOU SHOULD BE THE EXPERT. We should be asking you questions.

I have torn apart and repaired dozens of Canon printers of all makes and models. I have written a Repair Manual for each of them. I'm always in the Market for a trade. I'll trade you one of my Repair Manuals (of your choice) for the Canon Service Manual for one of your printers that I have not worked on. I'll have to finish this note to go back and see which ones you have that I don't have.

By the way, whos ink do you use for refilling. I recommend only "Image Specialist ink" from PrecisionColors.com.

 

[Trigger 37]

embguy,... Well I just check and the only printers I'm missing is the MP610 and the MX860, so if you have either of those we can make a deal.

Here is what I have done.

i series = 550,560, 850, 860, 950, 960, 9100, 9900, 9950
F series = F20, F30, F50, F60, F80
iP Series = 3000, 4000, 5000, 4200, 4300, 4500, 5200, 5300, 6000, 6600D, 6700, 8500
MP Series = 450, 460, 500, 510, 530, 700, 730, 750, 760, 780, 800, 830.
S-Series = I have the data to do a Manual for these printer but don't have the time.

If you see something you need, just send me a note.

 

[embguy]

Trigger 37,
You have a great collection of service manuals on Canon printers. I do not have MP610 or MX860 service manual to trade. I will contact you when I need a manual.

I refilled one of my empty OEM magenta cartridge with Image Specialist ink this afternoon. The yellow looks okay without any magenta contamination after sitting idle for an hour. The generic compatible magenta will contaminate the yellow with waiting only 10 minutes. Keeping my fingers crossed. Will report tomorrow.

Update 1:
After one day with the refilled OEM cartridge, no cross contamination of magenta on yellow.