Does your pigment black ink run on plain paper when it gets wet?

[ghwellsjr]

The advantage of using pigment ink on plain paper is that it will not run if the paper gets wet. However, in my experience, a third-party pigment black ink may actually have some dye black ink in it. I'm asking everyone who has a Canon printer with a BCI-3eBK or PGI-5BK in it to do a nozzle check on plain paper and after a sufficient drying time, drip some water across the grid pattern and the two vertical black bars printed in the pigment black ink and report your findings. If you refilled your pigment black cartridge, wait until the reservoir is half empty to insure that the ink from the previous fill has been flushed out of the sponge. Please report the source of the ink and the cartridge and whether it runs. I'll start:

Formulabs ink refilled in Canon cartridge runs.

Inktec ink refilled in Canon cartridge does not run.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[jtl]

Neither 3eBK or PGBK OEM runs.

 

[theinkguy]

That all depends on what ink you are using. The Pigmented ink will sit on top of the paper until it is fully absorbed....tell tale sign to see what ink is in the cartridge.


Merry Christmas all!

 

[mikling]

I soaked some labels printed with Image Specialists black pigment ink for Canons in warm water for 15 mins. Hardly any bleed.

 

[panos]

Jetyoung 3eBK doesn't bleed.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Now that Neil Slade has raised attention regarding dye black ink in pigment black cartridges, can we have some more responses to my request for this little experiment? Please?

If you have a Canon printer that uses the wider pigment black cartridge, all you have to do is print a nozzle check on plain paper and after it dries, drip a little water across the pigment black grid lines at the top and give us a report.

See Neil's comments:

http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/inktest.html

 

[Defcon2k]

I made a similar test some days ago: I printed a nozzle check on plain paper and put it in a bowl of water for 10 minutes.
I used Inktec nozzle checks (some days old) and Canon OEM (4 months old) with my iP5200.
Here is the result:


As you can see, neither Canon nor Inktec pigment black is harmed by water, although water is a big problem for the dye based inks. Inktec does a little better here, because the Canon magenta is nearly completely gone.


(OT)
Some other test images... I made them on the same day:

Highlighter test: The (old) Canon pigment black is okay, Inktec is not so nice. Another ink named "KMP" here is reported to be resistant, but I did not try that for myself.

Pictures to see what exactly is printed on the paper in auto duplex mode:
Macro 1: Left: Normal printing on plain paper with standard quality. mid&right: auto duplex with normal and high quality. You can see that fewer black ink is used for pure black lines and that also colors are used.
Macro 2: Paper which was in water for 10 minutes. Left: dye ink. Right: this was printed in auto duplex mode with high quality. As you can see, the black color in duplex mode is pigment black. (compare the "4" in the middle of the screen. the edged are blurred because of my cam)

A drop of dye or pigment ink on plain paper.

A table I made to show which ink is used in which mode of an iP5200. It says on the upper side "plain paper/envelope" and "other paper". On the left side it says "normal", "(auto) duplex", "borderless", "greyscale". (Duplex is the only mode where pure black consists partly of color ink, and greyscale on plain paper is the only mode where only one ink is used: pigment black)

 

[Tin Ho]

I have a different opinion regarding photo black ink in BCI-3eBK for printing text. If your text print includes colors those colorful text will be printed by photo color inks. So there isn't really that much of value for the black ink being pigmented alone. The print will not survive any water treatment you guys did.

There is a true difference in the black text quality between dye and pigmented ink. But that difference is really because the nozzles for the pigmented channel being 5 times of that of the photo color channels. It's really not the dye black ink's fault. If you print on inkjet paper, not plain paper for copiers, then you will find the dye black ink will do better. You will need to print on inkjet coated paper if you print color text. So it isn't really that the dye black ink being so bad. It is really the print head for black text has larger nozzles and if you print on plain paper the dye ink is just no match to pigmented ink. But if you print color text on coated inkjet paper you will see a different result.

 

[jandaco]

Inkcycle refill cartridges 3Ebk do run.

 

[ghwellsjr]

If you print on inkjet paper, not plain paper for copiers, then you will find the dye black ink will do better. You will need to print on inkjet coated paper if you print color text. So it isn't really that the dye black ink being so bad. It is really the print head for black text has larger nozzles and if you print on plain paper the dye ink is just no match to pigmented ink. But if you print color text on coated inkjet paper you will see a different result.

Thanks, Tin Ho. I did not know there was an inkjet coated paper that was not considered a photo paper. I will look for some. I do have some matte coated inkjet paper but it says it is photo quality and it does not run the dye black ink.

But I have a question: When you print on the inkjet coated paper with a printer that has pigment black ink, do you tell the printer that you are using plain paper (which will cause the pigment black ink to be used) or do you tell the printer that you are using one of the photo papers like matte (which will cause the dye black ink to be used)?

If the latter is the case, then it sounds like you would never ever use the pigment black ink so why bother getting a printer with it?