Canon Pixma Pro 10 Refilling

[stratman]

Understand better now.

To fix the problem, the profiles need to be built using the correct paper setting (fine art) to make the printer use the ink for matte paper (matte black ink).

The Hat touched upon this --- try swapping the chip of a Photo Black cartridge onto a Matte Black cartridge and use this Matte Black ink cartridge with the Photo Black chip on it in the Photo Black cartridge slot in the print head. The printer will now use the substituted Matte Black ink cartridge.

The Hat's guide to swapping chips: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/canon-chip-removal-made-easy.5629/#post-40808

 

[Dredmanlaw]

Understand better now.


The Hat touched upon this --- try swapping the chip of a Photo Black cartridge onto a Matte Black cartridge and use this Matte Black ink cartridge with the Photo Black chip on it in the Photo Black cartridge slot in the print head. The printer will now use the substituted Matte Black ink cartridge.

The Hat's guide to swapping chips: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/canon-chip-removal-made-easy.5629/#post-40808

Why? How does this fix the problem of the profile using the wrong ink? I can get the printer to use matte black ink. I don't need to swap any cartridge to print with matte black. The profile was made using the photo ink so I don't believe it will match when I substitute ink.

Should it match when I use a different ink than the person who made the profile used? If so, then I have fundamentally misunderstood everything I thought I knew about these profiles and inks combinations. If it should not, which is what I understand to be true, then the profile simply used the wrong setting and must be profiled again using the correct setting in order to get the best quality out of the inkset and paper combination. That means I can only use OEM paper and inksets in order to get repeatable consistent and high quality results without a lot of fuss. That is a sad day indeed.

If the answer is that I need to invest time and money in profiling equipment and training, then third party paper and inksets are simply too expensive and much more expensive than OEM ink and paper. I purchased the Precision Color inkset because Mike clearly cares about quality and performance and supplies ICC profiles as a service. If those profiles don't work to their full potential on matte paper, it seems like he would want to know that. If I am wrong and the matte black ink and photo black ink makes no difference in the quality on matte paper then why in the world is there so much information out there that says otherwise. Further, I see the difference with my naked eye, which means the difference is significant. I see it much more in black and white than in color. The blacks are deeper, the shadows are darker, the contrast is more pronounced with the matte ink.

 

[stratman]

Why? How does this fix the problem of the profile using the wrong ink?

You want to use Matte Black instead of Photo Black when you select Fine Art setting. Will swapping chips onto a Matte Black cartridge and using that in the Photo Black cartridge slot in the print head produce acceptable results? Maybe, maybe not. It is relatively easy to try and you can always swap the chip back onto its original Photo Black cartridge if it doesn't work.

 

[Dredmanlaw]

You want to use Matte Black instead of Photo Black when you select Fine Art setting.

Nope. Never said that. I said that the fine art setting uses matte black and it is the only setting that uses matte black. The profiles were created using photo black. I want profiles created using matte black.

 

[jtoolman]

Ok. I still think that the best solution since using the Fine Art paper choice changes the platen gap, amount of ink laid and probably most importantly, forces the wide border rule on you is to simply create as I originally suggested, a custom profile using MATTE as the paper choice ( no border restrictions ) and use MK loaded onto the PK cart.
What is sooo difficult about doing that? If you are using 3rd party inks such as PC or Octoinkjet there really is hardly any ink costs issues. Sure you have to switch a PK cart with a MK loaded cart. Big deal!

Or just use CANONs "Correct" profile made using Fine Art Paper and you'll have MK ink used. Quite often you will never see a difference using the CANON paper profile with the any of Red River's Matte or art papers with their profiles.

Besides, fine art paper or fine art prints usually include a wide border to allow space for the photographer's signature but that's the subject of another argument, right?

Joe

 

[jtoolman]

Nope. Never said that. I said that the fine art setting uses matte black and it is the only setting that uses matte black. The profiles were created using photo black. I want profiles created using matte black.

Then you will have to make your own and fool the printer by loading MK ink onto a PK cart!!!

I don't get why that would be such a difficult task.
Heck I would be happy to do that for you free of charge! We probably can all benefit from that. Otherwise you are stuck with the Fine Art paper choice setting so you can use up MK.

Have you printed on other Matte papers using the CANON Fine Art paper choice to force it to use MK? Were you satisfied with the results? If not then you need to create a custom setup as I described.
If yes, then continue to use the Fine Art paper choice with ANY of the Canon matte or art papers or 3rd party paper manufacturers.

Another possibility is to yes, use the Fine Art choice ( so the printer used MK ) but use their ICC profile, even though is was created using PK. You might be surprised how good it looks.

Joe

 

[Dredmanlaw]

Ok. I still think that the best solution since using the Fine Art paper choice changes the platen gap, amount of ink laid and probably most importantly, forces the wide border rule on you is to simply create as I originally suggested, a custom profile using MATTE as the paper choice ( no border restrictions ) and use MK loaded onto the PK cart.
What is sooo difficult about doing that? If you are using 3rd party inks such as PC or Octoinkjet there really is hardly any ink costs issues. Sure you have to switch a PK cart with a MK loaded cart. Big deal!

Or just use CANONs "Correct" profile made using Fine Art Paper and you'll have MK ink used. Quite often you will never see a difference using the CANON paper profile with the any of Red River's Matte or art papers with their profiles.

Besides, fine art paper or fine art prints usually include a wide border to allow space for the photographer's signature but that's the subject of another argument, right?

Joe

Because it does not address my problem. I really don't have a problem with using the fine art setting. I have a problem with the profile using the matte paper setting using photo black ink. Are you guys just making fun of me for my willingness to explain the same thing over and over, or are you sincerely trying to help? I think you are trying to help, but it is hard to tell with writing.

 

[Dredmanlaw]

Or just use CANONs "Correct" profile made using Fine Art Paper and you'll have MK ink used. Quite often you will never see a difference using the CANON paper profile with the any of Red River's Matte or art papers with their profiles.

I will try this. If the papers are similar, maybe it is close enough when I am using OEM ink.

 

[jtoolman]

Because it does not address my problem. I really don't have a problem with using the fine art setting. I have a problem with the profile using the matte paper setting using photo black ink. Are you guys just making fun of me for my willingness to explain the same thing over and over, or are you sincerely trying to help? I think you are trying to help, but it is hard to tell with writing.

Of course we are trying to help.
But there is no way we can re write the existing profiles which were apparently made with PK rather than MK.

At least I understand ( I think ) what it is you would want to achieve.
You wan to be able to for example use a profile from Red River for Polar Matte or Aurora Fine art natural with Red River's profiles and have you PRO-20 or PRO-1 print with MATTE BLACK Ink using MATTE paper choice on the driver. That of course forces the printer to use PK rather than the desired MK. It is the same thing on my PRO-9500MKII and I agree with you that it is crazy. So the only choice I would have is to use Fine art setting with a 35mm border and then use Red River's Profile for that paper even though it was make using PK rather than MK. The differences will probably be indistinguishable.

If I have that wrong please correct me.
The problem is that if you use MATTE paper choice to print the color profile patches it uses PK rather than MK as one would think it would use.

I never realized that those printer behaved in that manner since I mostly do not use any fine art of Matte media on my PRO-9500MKII since I print most is not all my Matte media on a PRO3800 set up strictly for that.

I just did some example prints using Matte Paper choice with Canon profile for matte and yes, blacks are indeed dull as hell.
Using the Fine Art setting and their profile does not seem to improve the situation much more though! They do not even come close to what the PRO3800 can produce. The PRO-9500MKII is a ten color printer by the way.

Maybe Mike or from PC can chime in with some other suggestions.

Joe

 

[The Hat]

If you make your own profiles you may not get the printer to use the inks of your choice either, these machines with their software are designed to work specifically with their own paper and inks and veering from that path can make the machine do strange things on you.

Canon don’t wish you to have good quality on anything other than their products so what your facing now is probably the tip of the iceberg, so we’re back to tricking the machine to do what you want it to do, i.e. workaround.

I have a couple of 9500 and a Pro 1 and to get the quality that I want from these machines I play the trick of deliberately altering the media and print setting to get the machine to print with either of the blacks and to force it to use all of the inks, and dispense of the forced border issue also.

I call it trial and error or some would called it workaround so if you go to the trouble of buying the Colormunki to make your own profiles and spend endless days working with many different papers just to end up having to trick the machine into doing what was suggested to you in the first place.

Save time and purchase customized ICC profiles and again you may quickly end up back in the same place, just because the machine wants to print one way doesn’t mean you have to except that all the time, there comes a point where you have to take control and make it print the way you want it, full stop..