Canon Pixma Pro 10 Refilling

[Dredmanlaw]

I re-read my messages above. I wasn't clear at all.

@Dredmanlaw

Are you using the exact paper the ICC profile was made with? If not then results can certainly vary.

Yes. The problem I have is with the profile for the paper and ink that I am using.

Which inks and how they are used in making the image is dictated by the settings (Plain Paper, Matte Photo Paper, etc) you choose in the printer. Of course all this is predicated on the ICC printer profile which matches a specific ink with a specific paper with a specific printer.

I understand this. This is my point. The Canon paper settings only allow the use of Matte Black ink when using the fine art setting. The profiles are made with the "matte paper" setting and only use Photo Black ink. Therefore they will only look so good on matte paper.

There isn't an all-in-one paper. Old fashioned trial and error with printer settings, a matched ICC Printer Profile, or changing paper brand or type can resolve a number of issues... if you dedicate the time and money!

I get it. That is why I am posting here to sort this stuff out. The ICC profiles are not set up to do a good job on this specific printer with the specific ink on the specific paper - any matte paper using the correct profile (supplied from Precision Colors, when I am using precision colors inkset and let's say Red River matte paper) (from Red River when I am using the red river matte paper and OEM inkset.)

Are you saying that you have a "Fine Art setting" but that when chosen it reverts to "Matte Paper setting" when printing?

No. I am not saying that at all. I am saying that the only way to get the Pixma Pro-10 or 1 to print using Matte black ink is to use the fine art print setting. The matte paper setting gets you photo black ink which looks terrible on matte paper. Precision Colors uses the matte print setting, as does red river paper's icc profiles (when I use OEM inks) which means that the printer must be set to Matte in order to use the profile properly. (red river and precision colors do this because the "fine art setting puts ridiculous border limits.) Their profiles therefore must be missing a whole lot of gamut or dmax or whatever the technical term is. Which means their profiles do not allow you to use the Pixma Pro-10 printer on the specific paper in the icc profile, with the specific inkset in the icc profile to their fullest.

What I am saying is I have a choice between using the supplied profiles and getting the color right with severely compromised contrast or I can use the supplied profiles with the incorrect printer setting and get good contrast, but I won't have a great idea what I am going to get.

 

[palombian]

Hello Gaetan,



Gaetan, you did purchase a resetter from me in September 2014 but no ink was also acquired so I suppose you probably acquired it from another source as such troubles do not exist with my pigment inks for the Pro9500 or Pro-10.

If I recall, you were supposed to have someone call me back in October 2014 since you indicated adamantly that the resetter did not work or did not understand how to use the resetter properly...I suppose someone eventually translated the instructions to French for you. Good to know that eventually it was figured out.

Now tread carefully in the world of pigment inks for Canon Pro printers because sometimes Epson pigment inks are sold under the guise of suitable for Canon as well in a lot of public marketplaces and these will lead to troubles and sometimes terminal head failure down the road. The first signs of trouble is ink starvation and loss of color or density...maybe this is the source of the problems you describe "after 2 or 3 charging". I've even heard of some users trying High Quality Cone inks ( Epson) on Canon printheads with not good results. So it is not necessarily the initial quality of the inks but also the physical properties and resins that can withstand thermal heads like those on the Canon.

I delayed my inkset for the Pro-10 for about 6 months for a reason. Proof testing for reliability and consistent printing. I fully test for quality printing and reliable results and that takes resources and I incur costs to ensure that customers receive a product that fulfills its performance requirements when released.

It is indeed not easy to find good inks for Canon pigment printers.
The ones sold by mikling and websnail work without problems.

 

[The Hat]

OK the simple answer to your problem is to have and use two extra black cartridges, then swap the chips on them both so the Photo Black cartridge has the Matte Black chip mounted and the Matte Black cartridge has the Photo Black chip mounted.

That way you can have the best of both worlds and choose any profile you like with any paper you like and use which ever black work the best for you on your chosen paper.

Your printer won’t even know whether it’s coming or going and only you will know this dirty little secret....

 

[Dredmanlaw]

OK the simple answer to your problem is to have and use two extra black cartridges, then swap the chips on them both so the Photo Black cartridge has the Matte Black chip mounted and the Matte Black cartridge has the Photo Black chip mounted.

That way you can have the best of both worlds and choose any profile you like with any paper you like and use which ever black work the best for you on your chosen paper.

Your printer won’t even know whether it’s coming or going and only you will know this dirty little secret....

I appreciate your willingness to help me figure this out, but that solution does not fix my problem. My problem is that the icc profile does not use the matte black ink. Your solution just has me printing on the whole page with a profile that does not match the ink I am using. Further, it fails to fix the problem of printing full size on matte paper, which is not what I am trying to do, because it introduces a bigger problem, which is purging and wasting ink from every cartridge every time you want to switch from matte to glossy. And if I just change the ink permanently then I won't be able to print full size glossy images.

 

[The Hat]

You’re looking at your problem the wrong way round, the ICC Profile does not need to know that you have a different black that you want to try out.

To test out any new idea use 4 x6 size and keep the larger paper for when you have sorted out all of your issues.

There’s no need to purge any of the inks either, just print one or two small images and the new ink will start coming through rather quickly, crop a portion of you photo to fit on the small size paper and you’ll see the difference in no time at all.

I use both Matte and photo black inks on gloss and matte papers all the time because I sometimes forget which one I am using and they both look just the same, try out some of these ideas you might be pleasantly surprised.

Nothing ventured nothing gained, it’s ok to drive on both sides of the road if you’re all alone at that particular time...

 

[Dredmanlaw]

You’re looking at your problem the wrong way round, the ICC Profile does not need to know that you have a different black that you want to try out.

To test out any new idea use 4 x6 size and keep the larger paper for when you have sorted out all of your issues.

There’s no need to purge any of the inks either, just print one or two small images and the new ink will start coming through rather quickly, crop a portion of you photo to fit on the small size paper and you’ll see the difference in no time at all.

I use both Matte and photo black inks on gloss and matte papers all the time because I sometimes forget which one I am using and they both look just the same, try out some of these ideas you might be pleasantly surprised.

Nothing ventured nothing gained, it’s ok to drive on both sides of the road if you’re all alone at that particular time...

I don't have a problem printing with the Matte Black ink with the supplied profile. I can do that easily enough. I want to have a good idea of what is going to come out of the printer before I print. That is the point of using the icc profiles. If I want the profile to be a correct representation then I need use the same ink that is used to create the profile. As I mentioned before, I tried using the matte black ink using the profile that was created from the photo black ink and the print comes out wrong. They absolutely do not look the same using the different inks on matte paper. The photo black ink version is clearly dull and flat.

And printing two small photos is the same as purging the ink. It is a waste of ink and paper. I really have no desire to play around with a printer until it does what I want. I need something consistent that I can count on to give me repeatable results.

 

[jtoolman]

I am surprised the PRO-10 and PRO-1 does that. But then I think I read somewhere that the earlier PRO 9500 MKII also does that. If that is the case then that is really not acceptable, or CANON has a very good reason for that behavior!

I am afraid that the ONLY way you can solve this is by creating ( yourself ) or having someone else create profiles for you. You would choose MATTE as the paper choice BUT instead of using PK ink loaded PK cart, you would use MK ink filled PK cart instead.

During the creation of the color patch sheets you would be using MK rather than PK and after scanning and creating that profile you should have a profile that takes into account the use of MK. It would work perfectly

I get what you are saying. The Matte profiles available from CANON or 3rd party companies where NOT produced using MK ink but instead using PK ink.

Would it be useless to print with those profiles while substituting the PK ink filled cart with one refilled with MK? I can not answer that and only testing would show you what that would produce.

I do not have a PRO-10 or PRO-1 but I will test this on my PRO-9500 and see what happens.

Joe

 

[stratman]

I really have no desire to play around with a printer until it does what I want.

Unless you get a customized ICC Printer Profile like jtoolman said then someone will have to play around with settings and/or different inks.

I don't recall if you already spoke n this, but, have you tried this with Canon paper, Canon ink, and Canon's ICC Printer Profile to see the output?

 

[Dredmanlaw]

Yes. Canon's profiles work fine. You use the fine art setting. The third party paper and ink folks could also use the fine art setting for matte papers when making their profiles and that would fix the problem. Forget changing inks. That's no solution. The profiles are built to use photo black where they should be built to use matte black for matte paper.

I get what you are saying. The Matte profiles available from CANON or 3rd party companies where NOT produced using MK ink but instead using PK ink.

No. The canon profiles are correct. They require that you use the fine art setting.

During the creation of the color patch sheets you would be using MK rather than PK and after scanning and creating that profile you should have a profile that takes into account the use of MK. It would work perfectly

Correct. Easily done if the profile creator uses the fine art setting rather than the matte paper setting. no need to change the ink around and break all the other settings.

I am afraid that the ONLY way you can solve this is by creating ( yourself ) or having someone else create profiles for you. You would choose MATTE as the paper choice BUT instead of using PK ink loaded PK cart, you would use MK ink filled PK cart instead.

Not the only way. The fine art setting uses matte black. The person creating the profile just has to use the fine art setting.

Would it be useless to print with those profiles while substituting the PK ink filled cart with one refilled with MK? I can not answer that and only testing would show you what that would produce.

Not useless, but I have to do it by eye and my eye sees a difference I think. And not necessary. If I use the fine art setting then the printer uses matte black ink. The profile was not set up to use matte black ink though and the image looks muck darker and more saturated to my eye.

 

[Dredmanlaw]

I don't recall if you already spoke n this, but, have you tried this with Canon paper, Canon ink, and Canon's ICC Printer Profile to see the output?

Yes. Works perfectly. I would assume moab's profiles also work perfectly because they use the fine art setting that uses the matte black. Everyone seems to mis-understand what I am saying which means I am not communicating this properly. The problem is that the creator of the PROFILES use the wrong paper setting (matte paper) which makes the the printer use the wrong ink (photo black ink). To fix the problem, the profiles need to be built using the correct paper setting (fine art) to make the printer use the ink for matte paper (matte black ink). Even if canon changed the matte paper setting to use the correct ink for matte paper (matte black ink), the profiles would have been created using the photo black ink and would have to be re-created using the correct ink. Pretty simple in my mind.