can one make light magenta and ligh cayn by diluting magenta and cyan

[martin0reg]

So that's the scientific backgound of (over)heated bubble jet nozzles.
Regarding the practice I already have got your answer here, didn't I..?
http://www.druckerchannel.de/forum.php?seite=beitrag&ID=276290&s=1#comments

I'm still asking myself what is worse and causes more damage to a canon printheads:
3rd party "compatible" ink which does not have the correct chemical properties
or the fuji drylab ink which is probably made originally for piezo printheads.

Okay, "probieren geht über studieren", but trying the DL ink can cost me a canon PH..

 

[berttheghost]

'superheated ' - o.k., there are 2 values important - the boiling point - the temperature at which the solvent evaporates, goes into the gaseous state, and the energy needed to heat a particular amount of liquid to reach this temperature, characteristics which are controlled by the mixture of the solvents . The ph value, and the amount of ions in the ink do something destructive to the heating elements in the ink channels - a voltage is applied across these resistor films, metallic film in direct contact with the liquid. A potential difference in an electrolyte let the ions migrate, and they take something with them - charge with ions from the electrodes - the ends of the resistor film - the classic situation of electrochemical erosion. That is the main reason why such thermal printheads have a limited lifetime depending of the amount of ink passed through. The driving voltage for the ink bubble resistors is 25 volts or something, that's a lot for electrochemical effects . That's an effect you cannot clean away, or repair otherwise as lots of Canon users experience with their printheads after a while.

I'm sorry, but I'm somewhat skeptical about the above. (Read you've managed to set off my BS detector.) It reads too much like an Epson marketing person's explanation of why Canon printheads are evil. Could you please cite a reference? Again, sorry.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

that's discussions and information from last millenium, HP got the deskjet printers into the market, with the printhead at the bottom of the cartridges, and that was a technical description by HP why this construction was necessary, and why the nozzles wouldn't last much longer than a cartridge filling. The next contender in the inkjet printer market was Canon with a 'breakthrough' invention of a permanent printhead, installed in the printer, separate from the cartridges, and Canon explained their own patents and that they had been able to minimize the effects of that electrochemical erosion, this was the time of the BJC6000 etc models, all long time ago. They didn't claim that they eliminated such effects alltogether. I wouldn't have too much a problem with that, and buying a new printhead once in a while, it was the effect that a printhead failure rather frequently killed the motherboard in Canon printers, a side effect HP users didn't and don't experience at all. I was using all those Canon models, BJC..., S..., i..., IP...
And then Epson jumped into the inkjet business with the piezo technology which they managed to miniaturize enough to make printers with it, and they offered units the first time capable to print photos in a decent (at that time) quality, jumping into the emerging market of digital photography. And then the market almost exploded with Canon, Epson, HP bringing frequently new models into the market, reducing the droplet size to 1 pl, expanding into larger formats, adding inks etc, and then the large format market split off altogether with companies only doing their business there, Itoh, OCE etc, and there adding lots of other ink types, solvent based, UV hardening, inks for about every type of surface, huge banners and all that stuff.
So long time ago I treid already to use Epson type refill ink in a Canon Printer, it took only a short time until the printout faded, it didn't do any damage to the printhead, using Canon ink again , and after 2 cleaning cycles it printed again. It worked the other way around, I used up Canon and HP destined refill ink in Epson printers, you may get some color shift, that either doesn't matter for simple internet printouts, or I made an ICM profile when needed.

 

[berttheghost]

that's discussions and information from last millenium, HP got the deskjet printers into the market, with the printhead at the bottom of the cartridges, and that was a technical description by HP why this construction was necessary, and why the nozzles wouldn't last much longer than a cartridge filling. The next contender in the inkjet printer market was Canon with a 'breakthrough' invention of a permanent printhead, installed in the printer, separate from the cartridges, and Canon explained their own patents and that they had been able to minimize the effects of that electrochemical erosion, this was the time of the BJC6000 etc models, all long time ago. They didn't claim that they eliminated such effects alltogether. I wouldn't have too much a problem with that, and buying a new printhead once in a while, it was the effect that a printhead failure rather frequently killed the motherboard in Canon printers, a side effect HP users didn't and don't experience at all. I was using all those Canon models, BJC..., S..., i..., IP...
And then Epson jumped into the inkjet business with the piezo technology which they managed to miniaturize enough to make printers with it, and they offered units the first time capable to print photos in a decent (at that time) quality, jumping into the emerging market of digital photography. And then the market almost exploded with Canon, Epson, HP bringing frequently new models into the market, reducing the droplet size to 1 pl, expanding into larger formats, adding inks etc, and then the large format market split off altogether with companies only doing their business there, Itoh, OCE etc, and there adding lots of other ink types, solvent based, UV hardening, inks for about every type of surface, huge banners and all that stuff.
So long time ago I treid already to use Epson type refill ink in a Canon Printer, it took only a short time until the printout faded, it didn't do any damage to the printhead, using Canon ink again , and after 2 cleaning cycles it printed again. It worked the other way around, I used up Canon and HP destined refill ink in Epson printers, you may get some color shift, that either doesn't matter for simple internet printouts, or I made an ICM profile when needed.

Thanks. I think I'll order a spare printhead or two now.

 

[stratman]

I made an ICM profile when needed

Haven't seen that extension posted in a while. Funny how language use changes over the years.

ICC profile = ICM profile (can be used interchangeably for colloquial sake)

 

[stratman]

Thanks. I think I'll order a spare printhead or two now.

If you like your printer and want to keep it running for years then a spare or three print heads is a smart thing. Canon Sales may have the best pricing.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I had been running some fading tests over the last weeks (as reported as well on the German druckerchannel.de forum), and can report some of the conclusions now, this test is running now
for two weeks, with some springtime sun in this period:

I'm using a dye ink from cartridges for the Fuji DL100 Drylab printer, so in a sense an OEM ink, these inks
come in 200ml cartridges at 44€ each, and are this way much cheaper than OEM Epson dye inks in smaller cartridges at up to 1000€/liter.

These inks - CMYK - all perform very well - no fading visible

other inks in the test are dye inks for Epson photo printers by octoinkjet,
the CMY inks perform quite well, C and M start loosing some saturation now, black looks like milk chokolade and turns out to be pretty useless

another ink set in this test comes from China/Alibaba http://www.aliexpress.com/item/400m...BX305FW-BX305FW-plus-printer/32273168951.html pretty affordable, incl shipping, but shipping takes about 6 weeks. The ink is claimed to be 'UV resistant', C and M perform similar to the Coralgraph C and M inks, some fading visible, and black has turned into brown, as well pretty useless.
This ink performs somewhat better than another 'UV resistant' ink I got from US via Amazon earlier this year, that was a real fast fade ink, all colors fast fading, not only black, you almost could see the black turning brown while watching.

so to conclude at this time - the Fuji DL inks are by far better than all other 3rd party inks tested in this cycle

All color bars are printed on a cheap Labelheaven glossy photo paper, which showed in an earlier test,
that dye inks fade faster on photo papers than on copy paper

 

[martin0reg]

Finally a confirmation of my trials with the 4-color set!
(I am using 500ml carts for fuji DL 450 and similar - inkstainedfingers 200ml carts for 6-ink models like DX-100 or epson surelab d700)

New thread title would read:
"Can one get epson claria by pulling ink out of drylab carts?"

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I wouldn't stick too much to the 'Claria' brand name. Epson is calling the inks for their Epson Drylab printers D3000 and D700 Ultrachrome D6 (Ultrachrome Dye 6 color), and those may be another choice to purchase Epson OEM ink at a much better price than in small cartridges

 

[martin0reg]

It's not the name, it's the quality which is stunning me, regarding color matching and "longevity matching" of epson OEM dye ink.

Next project: converting an epson 3k pigment printer into a "3k dye printer" using this ink.
While it won't reach the best possible fading results of OEM pigment ink it would be stable enough for many purposes.
Advantages of dye over pigment: better gloss on cheap papers, less problems with paper choice in general. And less ink costs: epson ultrachrome costs 45€ for 80ml (3880), epson d6 or fuji vividia DL ink costs 45€ for 200ml.

BTW my new (or good as new) pro3880 is sitting next to me...finally I could not resist anymore and got myself this big machine..although it might be oversized for my hobby printing - I just had to have one now...