Which Pigment Ink for Epson 1500W?

[martin0reg]

I have made profiles for R285 + L800 ink + some special papers, but not epson papers yet.
The r285 is a 6-channel like 1400/1500 but I would not expect profiles to match the other model.

But out of curiousity I made a comparison:
A: r285 + L800 ink on epson premium glossy
B: r285 + DL ink on the same paper
The printer was set on this paper and "epson vivid", without the "ICM", as this setting came closest to a profiled print of the test photo.
The DL ink was the 4color version (described in detail and UV tested), C and M diluted to 33% for LC and LM.



The result of L800 ink is colder, while the DL result is warmer and slightly darker - to my eyes the better matching colors. But there are some variable factors here, the printer, the dilution ratio and maybe the fluid ... so this is only a quick look on the color of these ink sets...

 

[Hisopio]

Hello, I'm thinking in replacing my not so old R2000 with a 1500w with pigment inks and I have a couple of questions.

I would like to try the Powerchrome K3 inks and use the Matte Black on it, but, do you know if somehow it would be possible to make good quality prints on glossy paper? maybe a special kind of paper (non coated?) or mixing the MK with a little of PK? or spraying some kind of varnish?

Also, does anyone know if I could do heat transfers with this ink? 'cos sometimes the yellow turns green with the heat...

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

matte black on glossy paper won't work very well, you will get quite a visible gloss differential to the other inks. I won't think that the K3 inks without gloss optimizer will print any better than dedicated R2000 inks with GO. I don't see whether you currently do refill on the R2000, and which inks you are actually using. And it is not very clear what you would expect from a 'good quality print on glossy paper' - what are the problems with the current R2000 printouts ?

Pigment inks are not suitable for heat transfer, you need special dye sublimation inks for this process. I think I have seen them as well with the matching colors for the R2000.

 

[Hisopio]

I'm not that worried about gloss differential, since I'd print my own illustrations and I kind of like that effect actually. I'm worrying mostly about the ink not sticking properly to the paper and getting easily scratched.
I was very happy with my R2000 and doing refills since always, but now it's badly clogged, cannot print any more. And I'd have bought another one, but I'm really tired of spending 500+ euros (600+ since now it's being discontinued) every two years for a printer.
I believe that the 1500w can do very good prints, close to the R2000 and at half the price, the only think is that yes, it lacks the PK and GO for glossy papers.

Pigment inks is the way to go for heat transfers (with only the little problem with some yellows), dye inks would wash out very fast.
Sublimation inks work only on synthetic fabrics.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

sublimation inks are dye inks, and they reach their stability once they have settled within the polyester fiber during the vapor phase. You can use the transfer process with other materials - inks, fabrics but pigment inks are not made for that. If it's o.k. for you what you get then it's fine.
I think the reasons for the clogging of several of your printers should be cleared up before you continue like that with another printer model, it may not get better then. It could be the inks, the cartridges, the handling whatever. You may switch to a CISS to reduce handling /cartridge issues. You would print with whatever black you fill into the black cartridge - photo black or matte black.
Scratch resistance depends on the inks and as much on the coating of the photo paper, non-high glossy - silk type surfaces may be better in this case, or you may have to look for some surface treatment - like a spray varnish - or even lamination. Plain, non-coated paper will not give you any good color saturation.

 

[Hisopio]

Yes, thanks. After all this years, I thought I knew enough about maintenance and how to avoid clogging. Now I admit that as long as I continue using third party inks with Chinese cartridges I will be putting my printer at risk.
And you're right about the CISS, filling and refilling cartridges is risky too, this last time I sent a print and did a couple of head cleanings and didn't notice that I had two empty cartridges in there. It was the beginning of the end...

Matte black is mandatory for fine art papers and transfers, that's what I do the most, so I'm going to stick to that one. And I don't feel like switching blacks at all (waste of ink and big clogs sooner or later for sure).
I will see how it goes with glossy papers...

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Refill is not that simple and trouble free as some expect and suppliers promise - there are lots of threads in this forum to it, and as well at other places. Just to give you an example, I'm printing about 15 000 pages with a R265, with a CISS , and transplant that even into another printer until it fails, the softeners in the plastic - rubber tubes etc slowly evaporate after years - 6 - 8 years, and during such a long period I only do a few manual cleaning cycles on top of those triggered by the firmware when a cartridge reports empty and needs a virtual exchange, for the rest of the time I just add inks to the reservoirs. But I know , and experienced it myself, that there are more problems typical with refill cartridges, coming from the frequent insertions, rubber gaskets not really fitting, drawing air, clogging, and what else keeping you busy with this and that keeping the printer running. It is difficult to give general advice in this situation, but I have the impression that you are affected more than necessary.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I compared the Fujifilm DL inks and the Epson Surelab D6s inks in my L800, I did some profiles for various papers. I'm showing you this one, the results are pretty much comparable to other papers that the total gamut is about identical, and the specific color preferences remain with the other papers.


The red line shows the D6 ink gamut, the light blue line the Fujifilm DL inks, they are not identical, but the overall gamut volume is virtually the same - 1.124.200 vs. 1.142.700 as calculated by Monaco Gamutworks, other programs may get different numbers. These differences are not big, and probably visible only in direct
comparison on prints which actually use colors in those areas where the gamut boarders do not overlap. This result overall would indicate that Fujifilm and Epson inks are not identical.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I asked myself a question whether and how much profile target prints would fade ( probably signs of a print addiction....), there are some not very well justified recommendations to wait an hour or a day before reading the target patches.

I made a little test - with dye inks - Epson Surelab in a L800 - and pigment inks on a R265- a particular mix left from last years testing of pigment inks and papers. I printed my usual target patch sheed - A4 with 988 fields - and measured them after 1 hour, 4 hours and 1 day. I measured the patches two times, with an i1iO robot table and made an average of the readings, and used the averages to create a profile from the data and displayed them with a profile viewer.


You can see two areas - a wider gamut for the dye inks , and a smaller one with the pigment inks.
(I know that my pigment magenta mix is somewhat weak).
Each of the curves are actually 3 curves each for the profiles overlapping with the measurements after 1 hour, 4 hours and 1 day - the result is - it does not matter whether you measure already 1 hour after print or 1 day, and there is no difference with the dye vs. pigment inks either - you don't need to wait longer with one ink than the other.

 

[martin0reg]

Perhaps printer addicted, but well informed...
But I miss a measurement after 10 minutes, because that's the minimal time which colormunki software is expecting.
And I use to wait no longer than that...