The 60-hour Myth on Canon printers (Not Here-say)

[stratman]

So no I don't have the PROOF

Thank you for answering the question.

.... do you

General Internet Rule: If you make a claim of fact and are challenged then it is incumbent on you to "link or slink".

I didn't make the claim. You did. Besides, if I did I wouldn't be asking you. I would present it.

I don’t have any more printers that I am willing to test your theory on

My theory? See post #10 for who's theory this is. (Hint: YOU)

Because it may bite back with continued heavy purges or give a fatal error requiring a Service Call for a reset

At least here you are making a theoretical claim and no one of fact.

I completely understand a concern of ruining an expensive printer as reason to not test an hypothesis. I would not demand you risk your printers.

Since you've brought up your concerns about printer apocalypses, we might as well continue this line of thought.

How would testing your claim [part (b)] cause these catastrophes on a Pro 100? One wouldn't have to override ink level monitoring or run the cartridge till empty and burn out your nozzles. Just time the "refill without reset" to before the prism is triggered and then "refill without reset" just after the prism has been triggered. Obviously one wouldn't do this with the same cartridge without a regular refill and reset first. The printer will either perform a new/replacement cartridge purge or not. Then you reset the cartridge, +/- topping it off, and you're back to business.

If it would help assuage your concerns, I will order a printer gods candle from Rev. Zombies Voodoo Shop in the French Quarter of New Orleans and light it for the protection of your printers.

don’t you have a Pro 100

Nope. All gone.

 

[The Hat]

My theory? See post #10 for who's theory this is. (Hint: YOU)

From post #10...

Reset the Chip, Refill it, or Both, then the printer will do a purge, because it’s now seen as a newly installed cartridge.

I wrote that in response to @BruceW77 references to not purging the carts on replacement in post #8, because I don’t have a Pro 100 or 9000 so couldn’t prove it on that machine, so yes you were correct, I had no PROOF for the Pro 100 but had this extract below from the 9000 Service Manual showing it does in fact purge the ink...

What I then said was I was unwilling to test out YOUR theory of resetting a cartridge that had no ink left in the reservoir at (Ink low) Part(B).

How would testing your claim [part (b)] cause these catastrophes on a Pro 100? One wouldn't have to override ink level monitoring

Exactly, because that action is seen by theses printers as an attempt to override (Interfere) with the ink monitoring system, thats where theses catastrophes come from.

because I once played that game with the Pro 1 by not resetting the chip and refilling, causing it to heavily purged before and after every print, till the printer was returned to the Service Centre with a fatal error.

To put this theory to bed for the last time, if there is any attempt by a user to disable ink monitoring in any way, (Big or a little bit) then the printer instantly reacts by suspending ink monitoring and starts to waste ink excessively and worse...

 

[SkedAddled]

...these printers are €600 here and not 50 bucks like the US.

I keep hearing about that, and it must cheese you folks off.
Honestly, I can't imagine WHY there can't be similar deals offered worldwide.

Do you folks ever get such a break on anything, or are the manufacturers simply ignoring such a large portion of the world market?

Apologies for the off-topic, but I'm genuinely curious...

 

[stratman]

What I then said was I was unwilling to test out YOUR theory of resetting a cartridge that had no ink left in the reservoir at (Ink low) Part(B).

Now you're purposefully winding me up. MY test scenario of YOUR theory. Apples to oranges.

It is YOUR claim that the printer will do a "replacement" cartridge purge if you "refill" it ONLY. This is my bone of contention since you made this claim in your post #10. I kept repeating this and you kept answering in creative ways that did not address your claim. Finally, 20 posts later, you wrote you didn't have proof and wouldn't be testing your claim anytime soon, certainly not on one of your expensive printers. This is a valid answer to my challenge - "part (b)" - of your claim. What you claimed is unsubstantiated, which can be perfectly fine. We deal in theory and "what if's" all the time on the forum. What is not fine is claiming it as fact when there is not evidence, sufficient or otherwise. Shouldn't we strive to keep things more science-y and less seance-y?

I had no PROOF for the Pro 100 but had this extract below from the 9000 Service Manual showing it does in fact purge the ink...

• What is meant by "replacement"? The same cartridge, a new cartridge, an older but not yet marked Empty cartridge, any cartridge?
  
• What does "re-installation" refer to? The same print head, a different print head OR re-installation of the same cartridge?

Again, this is NOT proof of your claim that a purge will occur if you refill a cartridge without resetting and reinsert it within the golden 10-20 seconds (Part (b)), at least until more information clarifies the situation.

Is there something in the manual about the golden 10-20 rule? If Canon does not advertise this rule, specifically where it indeed occurs as you and I have tested as true for our printer models, then testing needs to be done before we can say with authority that either there is or isn't "replacement" cartridge purging in your scenario of Part (b).

I once played that game with the Pro 1 by not resetting the chip and refilling, causing it to heavily purged before and after every print, till the printer was returned to the Service Centre with a fatal error.

Finally some meat with the potatoes - you explain the basis for your theory. I believe this happened to you. I accept your observations as evidence.

We'll overlook for now:

- that it is a Pigment-based printer and may behave differently,

- that it is unknown when the excessive purging began -- from the first moment you refilled without resetting, or, did it begin later such as when the cartridge believed it should be empty or after more than one refill without reset,

- or something else bolloxed the printer.

Was there similar purge behavior with the Dye-based printers a number of people experimented on with attempting to override the prism years ago by merely refilling the cartridge without resetting?

Of course, all bets are off if you manually turn off ink level monitoring at any time.

To put this theory to bed for the last time, if there is any attempt by a user to disable ink monitoring in any way, (Big or a little bit) then the printer instantly reacts by suspending ink monitoring and starts to waste ink excessively and worse...

Unfortunately you do not put anything to bed. One printer, sample number = 1, is hardly proof of your specific claim that merely refilling without resetting will either cause a purge in no matter how long it takes to reinsert the cartridge OR will cause excessive ink purges. These are still just theories given what is known at this time.

 

[stratman]

Do you folks ever get such a break on anything,

They do seem to have better pricing on photo paper from time to time.

IIRC, somewhere in Southeast Asia - India? - there were terrific deals on the first Canon Maxify, or Maxify-like printers, especially the ink refills. Of course, if Canon priced ink the way they do everywhere then the sales might not be so good.

We have good prices on printers. They have better beer. Heck, the Irish don't even export real Guinness to the USA.

 

[The Hat]

(b) IF (a) IS TRUE - Will an ink purge be triggered if you refill the cartridge but do not reset the chip despite returning the cartridge within the golden 10-20 seconds?

Back to this one again, so I had a look at my Filofax to see what it contains, and after reading the above, I found you were right, it won’t run a purge of ink as you know it, but it will run a vacuum purge, (No ink loss) this is only true if the chip was not registering as low at that point...

 

[stratman]

so I had a look at my Filofax

I like it! You and I may be the last to keep hand-written notes.

 

[BruceW77]

I can't imagine WHY there can't be similar deals offered worldwide.

My observation is that the Pro-100S is not offered in the USA, just the Pro-100. As far as I have read, the basic difference is that the Pro-100S has slight improvements to the WiFi. From what I can see most Pro users would not be interested in these features anyway. In Australia the Pro-100 was available but has been replaced by the Pro-100S. So I wonder if the discounted Pro-100 in the USA is just getting rid of old stock.

 

[Artur5]

I don’t think this is the reason of the rebates offered by Canon in the USA
It’s just that Canon USA and Canon Europe or Australia are totally different companies. Although they sell practically the same products, each company has it’s own policy and strategy on pricing, rebates, discounts and such.

Somebody guessed once that those huge deals in the USA are related to some sort of tax relief. I wouldn’t know if it’s so, but the fact is that I’ve never seen a single deal on Canon printers in Europe,

 

[The Hat]

I got a chance to print a lot of work on my 9500 mk2 printer today, it hasn’t been on for more than 3 months and I want to see how much ink it would waste after such a long period of idleness. (Un plugged from the wall)

I turned it on and nothing happened, no purge, I then ran the Ink Quality Maintenance to start (Agitation) followed by a nozzle check and finally it did it's first ink purge. (Nozzle check perfect)
click to enlarge.

I had several different types of printing to do and on the 2nd and 4th print the printer ran two other ink purges, I must have printed more than two dozen sheets in two hours and when I was finished I used the Power Off Utility in the Printer Maintenance panel, and the printer ended with another purge.

When I got the chance, I emptied the Printer Potty and weight the waste ink that had accumulated from all the ten cartridges over the two hours, in all the time the printer was powered on it did 4 ink purges and 1 vacuum purge.

The total waste came to 9.5 grams, so to put that into plain English, the printer wasted 1ml of ink for each cartridge, now if that doesn’t convince the sceptics I don’t know what will, because the printer had been idle for more than 2000 hours, and that’s a darn sight more than 60 hours.

Is this 60-hour massive ink waste thing a Myth or is it real, because I can’t reproduce it if it is, and I spent the whole time carefully scrutinising my printer from start to finish and recorded everything it did...
Thanks to the Printer Potty...