The 60-hour Myth on Canon printers (Not Here-say)

[The Hat]

I asked where you came up with your declarations about the 10-20 second parameter. If you don't know then you don't know.

OK here is the information you requested, but the time allotment only refers to how long the print head will stay in the middle of the carriageway before it moves back to the purge station, its got nothing to do with running a purge. (All carts out = 100 seconds)

Can anyone verify:

(a) You can take a cartridge out of the print head and return it unchanged (not refilled and not reset) within 10-20 seconds without triggering a purge?.... YES...
(b) IF (a) IS TRUE - Will an ink purge be triggered if you refill the cartridge but do not reset the chip despite returning the cartridge within the golden 10-20 seconds?... YES.... #

# Most will but some don't, it all depends on the age of the printers ...
Will this Quell, Calm, Dull or Pacify your Inquiring mind, Sir...

 

[stratman]

OK here is the information you requested, but the time allotment only refers to how long the print head will stay in the middle of the carriageway before it moves back to the purge station, its got nothing to do with running a purge.

This is your answer to my question on your golden 10-20 second parameter? Irish eyes are not smiling. You win today's internet "Non-Answer Answer" contest. Are you now. or ever been, a politician?

My queries to you remain how do you know what you posted to be so. Watching what happens with an external waste ink tank? Comments from thoughtful members on this forum. Some Gobdaw on a different web site? Consulting your tea leaves?

Can anyone verify, and if so, how:

(a) You can take a cartridge out of the print head and return it unchanged (not refilled and not reset) within 10-20 seconds without triggering a purge?
(b) IF (a) IS TRUE - Will an ink purge be triggered if you refill the cartridge but do not reset the chip despite returning the cartridge within the golden 10-20 seconds?

 

[The Hat]

OK your asking how long a piece of string is, and I say the best way to answer is to measure it the next time you have a piece in your hand.

I read your post and decided to test your theory out against my better judgment, I opened the print properties tab on my iP4500 and ran a Print a test Page, rather than manually turn on the printer with the on button.

When the page was printed, I opened the top cover and waited till the print head moved to the centre of the carriageway, then I removed the yellow cartridge, I waited 20 seconds by viewing the clock in front of the screen and then replaced the cartridge and closed the top cover.

The iP4500 did not run an ink purge cycle but it did pull a vacuum on the print head when it returned to the purge station, this action is very common with Canon printers but not all, and takes approx. 2 seconds, so does this give you the answer to your first question (A).

The answer to your second question (B) cannot be answered correctly because that all depends on which model of printer your referring too, the older ones don’t but the newer ones do, is this an acceptable answer to question (B) ? before my re-election..

Caveat ?... The time limit you keep referring to is purposely set so the user can remove and replace empty cartridges safely BEFORE the head returns to the purge station...

 

[BruceW77]

Stratman, you may not have read my rather long winded series of tests I did on the Pro-100S and referenced in my post on Noctivagus thread.

I did several tests where I removed cartridges for a timed period then sent a Form Feed to the printer. If a purge did not occur I repeated the procedure several times until the purge did occur on that group. Because the test typically involved an accumulation of very short periods, it is prone to human error. I got one test result of 55s and another of 57s. I think we can safely say that the Pro-100S timer for removing a cartridge and replacing it is 60s. It could be tested in one long step of 59s and then try increments of 1s if someone really wants to do that, but I think it’s unnecessary.

The last time I took cartridges out and replaced them without initiating a purge the Yellow cart was at a level less than the low ink warning and the grey had just reached the low ink warning. The low ink warning happens at about 18.8g. The yellow was at 18.61g. It will be lower by now and I plan to measure it tomorrow, before the purge that is due with the next print. It will be interesting to see what happens when the printer driver reports the yellow as empty and I replace the cart with a new OEM cart.

 

[stratman]

I opened the print properties tab on my iP4500 and ran a Print a test Page, rather than manually turn on the printer with the on button.

How did you get the printer "ON" without turning it on? Why did you not turn the printer on as most every one does - using the power on button on the printer? Odd you would introduce an necessary variable.

The iP4500 did not run an ink purge cycle

Thank you for your endeavor to provide proof.

1) Has it not been established that a purge in this scenario may require you to initiate a print job first?

2) (a) I just tried your experiment with my MP870, though I turned the printer on by the usual method - the power button on the printer. My printer seemed to do as you reported with your printer following a 15 second cartridge removal I then waited 5 minutes more to make sure the printer wasn't going to do another maintenance maneuver and then printed a nozzle check. Before printing began, the printer appeared to do another much longer lasting maneuver. Could this be a purge?

(b) Since the last time I printed was approximately 3 days ago, I turned off the printer and then repeated the experiment to make sure the potential "purge" before print was not due to a scheduled timed purge rather than caused by briefly taking a cartridge out of the print head. After closing the lid, there was some sort of activity that lasted at least 10 seconds, substantially longer than my original test. After waiting 5 minutes, I printed a web page and there was no delay before the printing began.

(c) Finally, I repeated the experiment but increased the amount of time the cartridge was left out of the print head to 60 seconds. Everything else was identical in method as I had done in (b). The results were identical as (b) with the same activity lasting the same approximate time after closing the lid UNTIL I initiated a print job. Before printing commenced their was a longer period of printer maintenance/preparation activity, longer than 10 seconds but no more than 20 seconds. Aha!

I do not have an external ink waste tank, so I could not measure potential ink purging. Yet, the length of printer activity before beginning to actually print after a cartridge is left out of the print head for 60 seconds may corroborate you claim.

In the spirit of the ongoing World Cup, you only get an assist on goal since I had to finish the test of your claim. You did get a Yellow Card for persistent infringement of the law of the internet: Failure to substantiate a claim when asked.

the older ones don’t but the newer ones do, is this an acceptable answer to question (B) ?

Good grief, you are incorrigible. All I can say is Mrs. The Hat must be an angel on Earth!

Again, what is your proof or provenance to your claim that refilling a cartridge without resetting it and then reinserting it back into the print head within your golden 10-20 second parameter WILL precipitate a purge?

You'll get a Red Card for obstruction of goal if you persist in not answering.

Caveat ?... The time limit you keep referring to is purposely set so the user can remove and replace empty cartridges safely BEFORE the head returns to the purge station...

To paraphrase President Ronald Reagan... there you go again... answering a question that was not asked, for feck's sake. (Crap, now I'm writing like you )

 

[The Hat]

Again, what is your proof or provenance to your claim that refilling a cartridge without resetting it and then reinserting it back into the print head within your golden 10-20 second parameter WILL precipitate a purge?

Sure, if you refill a cartridge that has not been registered as low, then nothing will happen, but if you refill the cartridge after the low ink warning then the printer will do a purge, and most likely it will be a Feckin big one.

As all the cartridges in my iP4500 are at 70% full I cannot test this scenario for you, and it probably will be Christmas before any of the cartridge get low enough to try...

As with all my Canon Dye printers I never use the ON button, that would mean physically getting off my ass to go and press the ON button, (That’s Crazy) I just send them a print job and leave them get on with it...

But please be advise that each of these printer models tend to do things a little different than their older sisters.. So, what’s good for the Goose may not be for the Gander...

(Crap, now I'm writing like you )

 

[stratman]

Sure, if you refill a cartridge that has not been registered as low, then nothing will happen, but if you refill the cartridge after the low ink warning then the printer will do a purge, and most likely it will be a Feckin big one.

Again, you're answering a question that wasn't asked. At least you're giving pretty much the same non-answer.

I feel like Bill Murray in the movie Groundhog Day. I love the movie but your repeating not so much. I'd feel differently if you were Andi McDowell.

t probably will be Christmas before any of the cartridge get low enough to try

I'll consider it your Christmas gift to me.

What about your Pro-100 or other Pro series Canon printer you have for the refill without reset golden 10-20 seconds test?

 

[The Hat]

Sure, if you refill a cartridge that has not been registered as low, then nothing will happen, but if you refill the cartridge after the low ink warning then the printer will do a purge, and most likely it will be a Feckin big one.

Again, you're answering a question that wasn't asked. At least you're giving pretty much the same non-answer.

What part of the Friggin question didn’t I answer ?, because I reckon I covered both scenarios for you.

What about your Pro-100 or other Pro series Canon printer you have for the refill without reset golden 10-20 seconds test?

Count me out, because I’ve run out of testing printers... and I’m not going to bugger up a perfectly good print head for nothing...The Gobeen has left the room...

 

[stratman]

What part of the Friggin question didn’t I answer ?

Part (b) -- What Is Your PROOF?

 

[The Hat]

(a) IS TRUE - Will an ink purge be triggered if you refill the cartridge but do not reset the chip despite returning the cartridge within the golden 10-20 seconds

Again, I will say I am not going to set the alarm bells off in one of my Pro printer just to PROVE a minuscule point, I know what these intelligent printers are capable of, and there’s no point in me proving something that I already know, remember I still have the Tee-shirt.

AND I Repeat, I don’t have any more printers that I am willing to test your theory on, they are not like the older printers that you are use too, where you can throw a spanner in the works and expect them to just continue, because they won’t.

Anyway, don’t you have a Pro 100 at home that you can test out the theory yourself, and bring your idea to a final conclusion and possibly the printers end...

What part of the Friggin question didn’t I answer

So just in case your still not satisfied, the answer is NO I don’t have conclusive PROOF of this happening on these Newer Pro printers, because frankly I'm longer crazy enough to even attempt it, why you might ask ?

Because it may bite back with continued heavy purges or give a fatal error requiring a Service Call for a reset, these printers are €600 here and not 50 bucks like the US.
So no I don't have the PROOF.... do you !