Real black dye ink for Canon Pro9000 MK2

[ThrillaMozilla]

So you've looked at the ink. That's quite a trick to design a dye that absorbs all colors, and I have to wonder how they did it. I'm guessing that all black ink, including this one, uses a mixture of dyes. I suppose you could experiment with mixing dyes yourself.

I also suspect it's difficult for any black dye to physically manage the trick of not producing a color shift regardless of the drop size. You have confirmed my suspicion. I think that's why they all use at least some colored dye to produce different colors on the gray scale. Some printers also have both a black and a gray, which probably helps a lot with color balance.

I'm still sceptical that Canon attempts this without using colored dye (or maybe they get away with just a black and a gray?). You could be right, but I would still have a look at a print with a magnifying glass, regardless of what the documentation says about a special mode.

 

[PeterBJ]

You might be able to correct the reddish or purple cast by tinting your photo black, for use in the special greyscale mode. By adding a little green or a mixture of yellow and cyan to the ink you may obtain a neutral black. A colorwheel might be helpful in determining which colors to add, as you correct a color cast by adding the complementary color. A colorwheel here: http://www.realcolorwheel.com/tubecolors.htm .

Maybe you could also mix a usable photo black by mixing cyan, magenta and yellow in the proper proportions. I think it would be a good idea to experiment with mixing diluted inks and keep records of quantities used and results. See this thread: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7033

Of course only dye inks should be mixed. Don't add pigment ink to the mixture as this will cause clogging of the printhead.

If I remember correctly mikling some time ago had a special B/W ink set for 4 color (5 cartridge) Canon printers. Maybe the black from this ink set could be used if still available?

I see ThrillaMozilla had a similar idea and was quicker to post.

Good luck with mixing.

 

[martin01]

Thanks for your quick responses and advises! It for sure that using the special grey modus only the black colour is used, possible using the very slow raster print technology. Looking through a microscope no coloured spots on the paper, only a black raster with variation in density like high quality printing. Further on: measuring the weights of the cartridges, only the black one have ink-losses. I give bulk ink (esp. magenta) the right colour by mixing with other dyes. The same I try with the black dye. But the quantity of cyan and yellow (or green) should be so high that the result is not black anymore but grey (ca. 60% black, original Canon 95%). Measurements with ColorMunki Photo. So resulting in contrastles prints.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

So it's not black enough when you mix dyes. That means the dyes do not have high enough concentrations, and there's nothing you can do about it.

It sounds like you understand the problem very well. I suspect there is nothing more you can do with one color black and that mode of printing, unless some ink manufacturer has solved the problem.

 

[PeterBJ]

I found this on miklings ebay shop: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-Color-8-oz...39?pt=US_Ink_Refills_Kits&hash=item2eaf50b6fb

mikling also has this website, but it is still under construction: http://www.precisioncolors.com

Maybe you can buy only the ink to replace the regular photo black? Maybe it is better than the regular photo black?

 

[The Hat]

There is also another was you could try to get a better B&W photo with your 9000.

First try replacing your red and green cartridges with the new colour grey cartridges
available for the Pro 100 printer (Swap the chip of course).

Then convert you picture to greyscale and print using all of the colours or second scenario
replace the magenta and cyan and do a print and see what effects you get with that,
or a third just replace the two photo cartridges cyan/magenta and print out that,
of course only use small size prints say 3 x 3 to save on paper, just move the photo each time..

 

[RogerB]

I think it is quite difficult to produce a good black dye. Most black dyes will transmit freely in the infrared, and so will begin to transmit in the deep (visible) red. This can account for the red cast in prints, particularly when viewed in tungsten light. I have measured a number of black dyes and some transmit more in the deep red than others. The Canon dye (as used in the MG5250) is not too bad but even so its transmission rises from about 650nm. The Lyson dye that I used for many years in an Epson 1160 gives a very good density over most of the visible range but has high transmission in the deep red. The prints have a definite red cast in tungsten light.

I believe that the newer Epson black dyes are much better in this respect and I have not seen any significant transmission in the red for these black inks. They are certainly better than the Canon black mentioned above. I'm afraid that I don't have measurements for any others that might be better.

Probably not what you wanted to hear!

 

[mikling]

For those that have the B&W inkset for the Canon CMYK printers, they can try using the ink that is contained in the Cyan equivalent. That dilutes out to black-grey-with a cooler tone rather than a bias to magenta. Don't forget paper responses as well on the final color. I've further refined the inkset this year with a tweak and the K has been changed.

 

[martin01]

Thanks all of you for your advises and ideas! I understand that making real black dyes is not easy, so difficult to buy. I order a B&W inkset for Canon by Mikling over Ebay and hope that the blacks/greys are more real black then other inks. And for sure they are useful for my Canon i9100 that I transformed a few years ago into a B&W printer with 6 shades of grey. The ink was mixed by myself (diluting with demi water and adding agents for viscosity and fungus). Missing a good driver or RIP for that purpose, I use the export curves in a older Photoshop program (in todays PS the export function is removed).