Pro-100. - Still Having Problems With Displayed Ink Levels

[turbguy]

Setup? Where did it say "Setup" on the carts that come with the PRO-100?
I did not see anything describing them as Setup.
In fact they come filled more that we would ever be able to do so by manually refilling.

Joe

It says so right on my labels in the carts supplied with the printer.

Wayne

 

[jtoolman]

Well I took a long and you are absolutely right!
I never noticed the tiny " Setup " on the label.

Now we have to figure out exactly what does that mean as it certainly does not mean that they come with less inks than regular retail ones. This Setup carts come loaded to the max.

I still have somewhat of a hard time believing that Setup cart chips are different than regular retail ones.

The only other test we could do would be to buy two different brand new OEM carts.

Run them until one of them is empty, disable ink monitoring and reset and refill it.

Then when the other new OEM carts runs empty, simply reset it and refill it.

Now run them again side by side.

If both of them behave normally, then there is something different about the coding of Setup Chips and not with OEM retail chips.

However if the Disabled OEM one again behaves abnormally and the NON
disabled one behaves normally then it is truly the act of disabling the ink monitoring that is the culprit.

Do we have any volunteers?

Joe

 

[The Hat]

Don’t look at me this time, because all dough I have some CLI-42 carts I don’t have a printer or resetter to test them out so you’ll just have to find another guinea pig..

 

[mikling]

Please note as well, that as soon as the optical sensor is triggered the pure electronic countdown to Empty begins. That means that if you put ink back into the cartridge the Low ink warning will still remain on and the upcoming Empty notofication is a given. Some have thought that as long as you keep ink on the sensor, the chip will keep on going and empty will not show up.

Now my next test is this. With the other DIMed chips, how long does it stay high? Will it stay at 80% if just refilled until the optical sensor kicks in?

Why? you might ask?? Here's why.

If the ink level stays at 80% at the second stage and does not drop at all UNTIL the optical sensor warning, we might have a good thing in disguise.
How?????

Suppose you always run out of say Gray first. and all the other colors are stuck at 80% full. Then if the other colors are stuck? all you need to do is just reset the Gray and refill and ONLY top off/refill the other 7 colors and NO RESET is necessary. That will make things much easier by not having to reset the other 7 cartridges.

We know that if one of the 7 colors goes low it will trigger the optical sensor when the tank is empty. Which is exactly what we want. The key trigger is when ONE tank goes into LOW condition warning. Of the other colors, the intermediate stage data is essentially meaningless and forces us to reset 7 additional chips each refill.

So after the gray is reset and refilled and the others topped up. If the PhotoMagenta goes to LOW next when the reservoir empties, then we just reset and refill that one and top off the others.

etc. etc.

STAY TUNED.

 

[stratman]

Mikling:

While what you propose saves time during the refilling process, does it save on the new cartridge maintenance purging that occurs with a new cartridge or newly reset and refilled cartridge?

Does the Pro-100 have the ability to do a new cartridge maintenance purge for ONLY the new cartridge or refilled and reset cartridge and not all like cartridges as is the case with previous models of Canon printers?

If new cartridge maintenance purging still occurs for ALL cartridges when just one cartridge is replaced, or the refilled cartridge chip is replaced, then you will still fill up the diaper as fast. The only way to delay a filled diaper would then be to TRUST the technology and refill to same or greater fill levels as new OEM and then wait to refill when the first "EMPTY" cartridge is indicated by ink level monitoring. To do so otherwise is actually wasteful and borders on the superstitious unless proven differently.


Thanks for the answer on which firmware you were/are using (v.1.02). Still wondering on the other questions I asked.

 

[stratman]

Well I took a long and you are absolutely right!
I never noticed the tiny " Setup " on the label.

Now we have to figure out exactly what does that mean as it certainly does not mean that they come with less inks than regular retail ones. This Setup carts come loaded to the max.

I still have somewhat of a hard time believing that Setup cart chips are different than regular retail ones.

The only other test we could do would be to buy two different brand new OEM carts.

Run them until one of them is empty, disable ink monitoring and reset and refill it.

Then when the other new OEM carts runs empty, simply reset it and refill it.

Now run them again side by side.

If both of them behave normally, then there is something different about the coding of Setup Chips and not with OEM retail chips.

However if the Disabled OEM one again behaves abnormally and the NON
disabled one behaves normally then it is truly the act of disabling the ink monitoring that is the culprit.

Do we have any volunteers?

Joe

Yes, I suggested this previously. You also want to try this with the most up to date firmware if possible. Definitely would want a firmware revision that includes the "fix" for ink level monitoring I posted previously on as well.

 

[mikling]

I will be working on the Pro-10 extensively in the next few weeks. I wonder if Roy could take up the testing as I had suggested. He has the DIM'ed chips. So only reset the one that signals LOW and only top off the others that have not signaled up as yet and don't reset those. Roy might actually end up enjoying that setup.

If this works. You "might" want to DIM the chips.

Now from another perspective.... what if Redsetter can fix the DIM'ed chip issue and we discover the above trick works. Should they actually "fix" ( assuming it can be fixed) the DIMed chip issue?

We need to find out if this trick works and real fast too. This trick IF IT WORKS can be of real use to many and I for one am warming up to it.

 

[mikling]

The Pro-100 design carries on as before like the 9000 so all are affected. One function of the purge is to get rid of ink that was exposed to air for an extended period while the carriage is in the middle waiting. Since all nozzles are exposed while the carriage is in the middle waiting, removal of ALL partially dried ink is thus required and that means ALL colors need to be purged from the nozzles.

Stratman, each time you open the lid, the carriage comes out to the middle and thereafter all are purged. Please reread and understand the hypothetical trick because I'm not sure you caught the essence of what it entails. The trick embodies everything you mention without having to reset the other 7......once some more testing is done.

 

[The Hat]

I hate to break it to you Mike but the answer to your Holy Grail quest in post #104 is it doesn’t work; a refilled cartridge that has not had the chip reset will cause the printer to stop ! or worse run till it was dry.

I tried that many times with the CLI-8 chip and the printer got wise to what I was trying to do and it by-passed the light sensor altogether and registered the almost full cartridge as empty.

I still haven’t been able to get to the bottom of what precisely happens in my iP4700, which is using CLI-8 cartridges, sometimes I get the low ink warning and sometimes I don’t. (Unfinished testing)

I would strongly suggest that no one should try this on their Pro 100 unless they have the time to watch their printer like a hawk, this new firmware should not be underestimated.

On the purge issue, post #106 Stratman:- if you change all of the cartridges when one is showing low (Warning) then you get just one single purge on all the eight cartridges together, instead of the customary eight purges x 8 times when changing them individually..

 

[stratman]

We have had user reports in the past that ink purging does not occur with every lift of the lid on previous models of Canon printers. Are they wrong? I do not know.

Removing and replacing a cartridge appears to trigger a purge every time. Has anyone every stated differently, not that I recall.

What is important is how often you trigger an ink purge by whichever mechanism. Refilling cartridges sooner than needed is a certain pathway to an ink diaper being marked earlier as full and the attendant hassles involved therein.

I understood what you wrote. It is a rehash of arguments from years and printers past. That's not to say it isn't a reality now, just that testing needs to be done again.

Do we know if anyone has continued printing past a LOW warning until receiving an EMPTY warning on a DIM'ed chip. Do we know a DIM'ed chip will show a proper EMPTY? I don't blame those with DIM'ed chips not testing the full function of the chips for fear of ruining their printers, but if this is not checked by someone then fear rules and science and printing suffers a little bit.

Even if your hypothesis works, and even if it doesn't and one just refills and resets all cartridges at the first "LOW" warning as seems to be the practice of some in this forum, you still will fill up your printer's ink diaper faster than if you follow what I wrote - to refill on the first cartridge marked as "EMPTY" (no DIM required!). Besides, if just lifting the lid triggers a maintenance purge of ALL cartridges then the only thing you save is the time and effort of resetting the other cartridges that did not have a "LOW" warning.

Yes, I see the time savings of your proposal - if this chip functions differently than others even when the optical sensor was blocked such as with tape. But you are still being imprudent on ink waste as it concerns an earlier printer warning about full ink diaper and the work that entails to reset and/or replace. Of course, having a diverted waste ink receptor would negate this reality.

Given that Canon has already acknowledged an ink level monitoring issue, and having faith that Canon does not care to fix firmware to make it nicer for refillers, I hypothesize that the ink level monitoring is not planned but an accidental byproduct of new coding for the chip. Why would Canon leave any resettable functionality on a chip when they know that someone will make a resetter able to be used by third party for global sales of after market ink? I seriously doubt that the niche market of resetters such as us, with you and websnail as business men excepted, are of significant concern to Canon.

I am still waiting your answer to my other questions.