KYSON USA CIS Experiences wanted !!!

[hiddenbay]

Well then maybe it is a good thing I still havent got mine It is funny Kyson Dan stated the same thing to me in the first second and third reply (got lost in the mail)
After the second request for status on the order I got the broken record reply got lost in the mail crap, so I asked for a tracking number AGAIN the same stupid reply and NO tracking info and DAN states just keep them both for your inconvienence... What a joke like yah o.k. maybe when you actually send one I could do that.
I did some looking around before ordering from them and really could not find much about them what little I did find was favorable. Hopefully whoever reads this will think twice about ordering from them.

 

[lockman342]

Hi guys,

This forum scared me quite a bit about purchasing the Kyson ink system for my Epson R2400 and Canon i9900 so I went ahead and put about twice as much money into a Lyson system for the R2400 and kept going with the original cartridges on my i9900 since there wasn't any system out there that seem to be receiving decent reviews (Canon cartridges almost bankrupt me !). The Lyson system was a disaster. Heads were clogging every other day and I spent almost a quarter of the ink for running cleaning cycles just to keep my production running smoothly.

Almost giving up on these ink systems, but since Kyson had a "30 day return policy and a 1 year replacement warranty," I figure why not give it a try. At least I will get my money back if their product wasn't up to par.

I am happy to report that it's been over a year now that I've had the Kyson R2400 system and have not experience a single clogging issue. I've also purchased the Kyson pigment system for my Canon i9900 and the colors were quite impressive compared to the original and have not experience any fading differences. I was also curious whether or not these inks were true pigment based inks, but the guys at Kyson confirmed that they were pigment based. This is their statement:

"Unlike traditional pigment based inks on the market today where the pigments are simply granules ground into a solution, the K4 Pigment inks are composed of particles dissolved in a special solvent and will precipitate out onto the print media only on contact. For this reason, K4 Pigment inks are superior over their competitors in peformance and longevity and have overcome the clogging issues so familiar with inkjet systems."

Kyson did not give me any more details but this is my assumption on how their K4 pigment ink is formulated. From my limited chemistry background, a difference in pH levels in a solvent could keep particles in solution and then the change in pH on the photo paper would precipitate out the particles or pigments.

The Canon i9900 system did leak on me after a few months but Kyson sent me a replacement free of charge. I spent over $5000 on Canon cartridges in one year before I went with the ink system. Those that have the i9900 or pro 9000 can sympathize.

The lesson to learn from all of this is that you should go with your gut feeling and try something for yourself, especially if there is nothing to lose.

Lockman

 

[pharmacist]

Lockman,

Welcome on this forum. Your comment about so-called pigment ink for the I9900 system does make me wonder why Kyson did not make promotion about this special reactive ink system. This would be a huge selling argument: Hey, We sell reactive dye ink which precipates to pigment on paper when dry. Have the advantage of flowing properties of dye ink (no clogging) and the archival properties of pigment ink....

I hope that not the pH is making the difference between solved into solution or forming pigment particles. Either the ink is caustic (let's say about pH 9 or higher) and thus destructive to the printhead or acidic (lower then pH 4) which is both destructive to the printhead and the paper on the long term. To have a significant difference for most charged molecules between being solved or precipitated the pH shift should be at least 2 pH units or even larger....

Maybe the solvent of the ink makes the difference ? Again there is the problem with the bubblejet technolgy: the evaporation of the solvent during the droplet forming process makes it very difficult not to form pigment particles inside the tiny nozzles on the long therm.

How can you makes your claim more believable ? Take a few ml of ink in a small glass and put a drop of ammonia to increase pH and see if the ink becomes instantly milky (precipitation of pigment) or a drop of hydrochloric acid (or concentrated vinegar) to lower pH.

Mayb the solvent is making the difference ? Put a few ml of ink in a glass and let the solvent to evaporate completely. Now the solvent has gone like on paper: pigment should have been formed on the paper. Now put a few ml of distilled water in the glass and swirl to dissolve. If the ink is reconstituted again, then it is dye. If you see a layer of precipitation on the bottom and the reconstituted solution is milky then you have precipitated pigment. Very easy experiments.

Hmm, strange: one of the first topic starters was complaining that the prints fade away quite quickly......
Something else: Shrey made complaints the ink does run from the paper when the ink has completely dried. If this so-called magical dye-to-pigment converting ink is doing what it is promising, then the ink should not run and bleed from the paper, right ?

 

[Epsonuser]

Bill Wong just posted his experience with Kyson on
http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00JRDw
It is a really eye opener.

 

[pharmacist]

Epsonuser,

thanks for your comment. Just what I thought. Letting several "happy users" to tell on forums how good the system and ink are, is not the way you want to do business. Look at Dave of Hobbicolors.com and Mikling of precisioncolors.com: honesty will prevail on the long term and will make your business to be successful on the long term.

 

[Epsonuser]

Pharmacist,

Some of these 'Happy Users' are not user at all but are company insiders trying to promote their product and put down their competitors at the same time.
Case in point comments posted by Don Yong (http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00JRDw)

I will copy them here for you to see (below)


http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00EPs6

Answers

Don Yong , Jul 20, 2006; 08:33 a.m.

You may want to try http://www.kyson.yangportal.com.
They offer a 30 day free trial and their ink is made in the USA. Not imported.
They also provide a printer protection program where if their product damages
your printer in any way, they will pay for the cost of replacing the printer.

Otherwise, check auctions on eBay and read the seller's feedback concerning
the systems he/she sold. Usually eBay buyers are fairly honest.
They key is buy only from USA, not imported. Even Lyson is fishy.
I heard rumors they are actually just Chinese products relabelled into the Lyson name.

http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00JRDw

Don Yong , Aug 16, 2008; 11:06 a.m.

I think the bottom line is whether or not these Kyson inks produce the same or better quality
than the original Canon inks. From my experience with the Kyson System for the Pro 9000,
the color output has been impressive and projects have been fade resistant thus far for
about 2 years now. Having a chemistry background, I know that pigments can be dissolved
in solution and precipitate backout once it reacts with another media such as paper.
This is the only explanation for how a pigment based ink can be used in a Canon printer
without clogging issues. I'm not sure if this is how Kyson is formulating their pigment
inks but it would be the explanation for why the ink stays translucent and not thick like
other traditional pigment inks that can only be used in Epson printers.

It's odd why Bill Wong has included a link in this thread directly to an article from
the Lyson company advertising their inks. My understanding is Kyson and Lyson, though
they sound the same, are two of the largest manufacturers of ink systems and fierce competitors.
If Billy Wong has any affiliation with the Lyson company, he should not add any more input into this thread.

If you go the link (http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00JRDw)
and click on Don Yong You will see the following,

Don Yong
A member of the photo.net community since July 20, 2006. (Give this person a gift subscription)

Personal home page: http://mitsu.yangportal.com
This page has been visited 152 times since August 31, 2006
Forum Postings
August 16, 2008: Response to Kyson Vista CIS & Canon i9900 - pigmented inks??
August 31, 2006: Response to Recommendation for LCD Video Projector for PC Photo Presentations
August 31, 2006: Recommendation for LCD Video Projector for PC Photo Presentations
July 20, 2006: Response to Canon i950 continuous ink system
Current as of: Tue Aug 26 11:54

Is it a coincidence that Don Yong is on the ' http://mitsu.yangportal.com ' and
Kyson is on ' http://www.kyson.yangportal.com ' ? I don't think so.
Also the name Don Yong is very similiar to DAN YOUNG , top guy at Kyson.

These self-promoters have a few things in common (their MO).

1- Claim to have a chemistry background (to give their opion more credibility)
2- Come up with wild explainations of how pigments can be dissolved and magically
reappear once it touches paper ( much like putting your tooth under a pillow and
expect it to turn to cash), would be laughtible if Kyson actually printed that.
3- Make up ugly rummers about their competitors (usually about Lyson).
4- Buy Kyson products, you have nothing to loose ( yah right, see what Bill Wong has lossed)


Suspiciously , LOCKMAN's posting fits this MO.

 

[pharmacist]

One thing: is someone will prevail with pigment ink in dye ink printers, then this man/woman will make alot of money. I am still experimenting with the optimal formule to use pigmented in in my MP780 printer and it is very difficult to get reliable printouts, due to the characteristics of pigmented ink.

 

[Epsonuser]

Pharmacist
I think pigment ink is just a interm solution while they (ink manufactures) try to make dye inks fade resistant.
The difficulties you experiencing may be hardware related ( printhead and electrical characteristics are optimized for dye ink) and cannot be resolved without modifications to them. So far the only people making a lot of money is people claiming they have pigment ink, put a "PIGMENT INK" sticker on their dye ink (simple solution eh!) and sell it.

 

[Epsonuser]

Kyson has changed it's name to INK USA SYSTEMS ( inkusasystems ).
BE AWARE, it's the same company using a different name.

 

[mikling]

This morning I received this from Candice of InkUSA Systems in my email.


"Have your friends remove the following posting immediately or else we will start posting on our own forums our opinions of your products. We are sure you do not want to follow this route.

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=39947

Candice
Ink USA Systems"



So please remove YOUR OPINIONS OF INKUSA from this system as I am being blackmailed for what reason? and I cannot afford this. What did I do to them?

Is this legal?