KYSON USA CIS Experiences wanted !!!

[lin]

I definitely ordered pigment ink and even refill pigment ink a couple of months later. Just checked my order receipt email, incase I did order dye by mistake.

I have also printed on Kirkland paper (old and new) and both have faded very quickly. I ended up buying a HP B9180 and printing on the same papers as I was with the i9950, none of my prints have faded at all. I have prints made last Sept (2007) sitting framed in the same place as the kyson prints and there is absolutely no fading. If the kyson is pigment - it's not very good. Outside of the fading issue, I am happy with the system for non critical work ie DVD/CV covers, website prints, general printing. On good plain paper is prints great.

Shrey

I believe you have ordered pigment ink from kyson as you have checked your receipt. But I am just wondering if they could they have send you the wrong set of ink which supposed to be pigment ink? Is the ink you received from them, opaque or translucent?

 

[shrey]

I definitely ordered pigment ink and even refill pigment ink a couple of months later. Just checked my order receipt email, incase I did order dye by mistake.

I have also printed on Kirkland paper (old and new) and both have faded very quickly. I ended up buying a HP B9180 and printing on the same papers as I was with the i9950, none of my prints have faded at all. I have prints made last Sept (2007) sitting framed in the same place as the kyson prints and there is absolutely no fading. If the kyson is pigment - it's not very good. Outside of the fading issue, I am happy with the system for non critical work ie DVD/CV covers, website prints, general printing. On good plain paper is prints great.

Shrey

I believe you have ordered pigment ink from kyson as you have checked your receipt. But I am just wondering if they could they have send you the wrong set of ink which supposed to be pigment ink? Is the ink you received from them, opaque or translucent?

It says pigment on all the bottles as well! The ink is translucent not opaque. Dan at kyson even confirmed it would look like dye as the pigment particles were ground down so fine they would look translucent. From my own experiences it dye ink the bottles labelled (miss sold) as pigment. Run a plain paper print under water makes the ink run. A print from the B9180 on plain paper doesn't.

Shrey

 

[pharmacist]

Shrey, as a scientist I can say that pigment ink is allways opaque, due to the physical size of the particles which will scatter light in all directions giving it a milky look. When the solution is totally translucent it is dye ink.......... And pigment when dried on paper should be waterfast......

Sorry I still believe that KYSON is selling crap......

 

[shrey]

Shrey, as a scientist I can say that pigment ink is allways opaque, due to the physical size of the particles which will scatter light in all directions giving it a milky look. When the solution is totally translucent it is dye ink.......... And pigment when dried on paper should be waterfast......

Sorry I still believe that KYSON is selling crap......

I agree with you. Their pigment ink is dye ink. It has none of the properties of pigment - waterfastness, lightfastness etc.

The CIS system itself is okay and the ink is clog free but like I said fades real fast. When I need to get more ink, I get it from either MIS or Hobbicolor.

Good thing for me, since I am in the UK with a strong , the system was not too expensive

Shrey

 

[Forsurchi]

Hello Everyone,

Okay, here's the deal with pigmented ink and dye based ink (as well as sublimation). You have to realize that the canon printer you mentioned at the begining of this forum uses dye based ink. If it carries the PGI-5 cartridge, then that's the only pigmented cartridge it carries. If you buy pigmented ink for a dye based printer (which isn't uncommon) your kind of asking for problems. I mean you can get past the clogs with cleaning and priming, but the problem is that its gonna happen. For those of you that havn't had this problem, your the lucky ones.

By putting pigmented ink (or sublimation) on a dye based printer, your forcing it to use ink its not ment to use. Sure pigmented ink is a better ink (that's why Epson uses it on most of its models), but if the printer works fine with its OEM dye based ink cartridges, then it should be kept that way. The fading on the paper is due to the drops being laid by the printer. Because the ink is thicker, it can't lay the right drop on each pass, which causes it to give gaps on pixels on each print. Dye based printers focus on laying drops quickly and heavy (depending on your setting) to coat each pass tight and precise. Aside from that, dye based ink absorbs faster into paper.

If you want to go with a pigmented print, then go with an Epson printer. As of now, HP, Lexmark, Dell, and Canon only pigment the black ink. Epson is the only company that sells pigmented for all their colors (which is why their favorized by photographers). I bought a continuous ink system from http://www.genxinks.com for my Epson C120. I got it dye based (which works great btw) since the Epson C120 is a document type printer. I still does great photo's, but epson put it out there for people that don't want to pay the extra cash for a laser printer. The printer is heck of fast on documents, about 1 full documented page a min... good enough for me, I can't afford a laser printer right now.

 

[pharmacist]

Forsurchi: sorry this just your 4th post and you are still referring to your website. I consider you as a subtile product placement guy.......

 

[Forsurchi]

Ahhh, you discovered the truth...j/k. Actually yes, that is my site, but what I mentioned above is true. Forget about me mentioning my site above, but know the difference about dye and pigmented printers. It can cost you more than you think by forcing the printer to take ink its not suppose to accept. If the head clogs on these printers (and you don't know how to unclog it), replacing the head alone will cost you more than the printers worth. And lots of headaches.

 

[shrey]

Hello Everyone,

Okay, here's the deal with pigmented ink and dye based ink (as well as sublimation). You have to realize that the canon printer you mentioned at the begining of this forum uses dye based ink. If it carries the PGI-5 cartridge, then that's the only pigmented cartridge it carries. If you buy pigmented ink for a dye based printer (which isn't uncommon) your kind of asking for problems. I mean you can get past the clogs with cleaning and priming, but the problem is that its gonna happen. For those of you that havn't had this problem, your the lucky ones.

By putting pigmented ink (or sublimation) on a dye based printer, your forcing it to use ink its not ment to use. Sure pigmented ink is a better ink (that's why Epson uses it on most of its models), but if the printer works fine with its OEM dye based ink cartridges, then it should be kept that way. The fading on the paper is due to the drops being laid by the printer. Because the ink is thicker, it can't lay the right drop on each pass, which causes it to give gaps on pixels on each print. Dye based printers focus on laying drops quickly and heavy (depending on your setting) to coat each pass tight and precise. Aside from that, dye based ink absorbs faster into paper.

If you want to go with a pigmented print, then go with an Epson printer. As of now, HP, Lexmark, Dell, and Canon only pigment the black ink. Epson is the only company that sells pigmented for all their colors (which is why their favorized by photographers). I bought a continuous ink system from http://www.genxinks.com for my Epson C120. I got it dye based (which works great btw) since the Epson C120 is a document type printer. I still does great photo's, but epson put it out there for people that don't want to pay the extra cash for a laser printer. The printer is heck of fast on documents, about 1 full documented page a min... good enough for me, I can't afford a laser printer right now.

Just a small correction:

HP B9180 is a pigment ink printer and so is the Canon 9500Pro and so are their lager brothers, the Z-series HPs and IP canons.

Their smaller printers are dye except for the black, like you said.

Shrey

 

[Forsurchi]

Yes Shrey, those high end models do use pigmented ink. Anything for Canon Printers that uses PGI is pretty much pigmented.

What I meant to say was that Epson uses pigmented ink even for their low end printers. The R260/R280/R380/RX580/RX595/RX680 all use pigmented ink. Basically the T078 cartridge is a pigmented cartridge.


http://www.genxinks.com

 

[lin]

Hello Everyone,

Okay, here's the deal with pigmented ink and dye based ink (as well as sublimation). You have to realize that the canon printer you mentioned at the begining of this forum uses dye based ink. If it carries the PGI-5 cartridge, then that's the only pigmented cartridge it carries. If you buy pigmented ink for a dye based printer (which isn't uncommon) your kind of asking for problems. I mean you can get past the clogs with cleaning and priming, but the problem is that its gonna happen. For those of you that havn't had this problem, your the lucky ones.

By putting pigmented ink (or sublimation) on a dye based printer, your forcing it to use ink its not ment to use. Sure pigmented ink is a better ink (that's why Epson uses it on most of its models), but if the printer works fine with its OEM dye based ink cartridges, then it should be kept that way. The fading on the paper is due to the drops being laid by the printer. Because the ink is thicker, it can't lay the right drop on each pass, which causes it to give gaps on pixels on each print. Dye based printers focus on laying drops quickly and heavy (depending on your setting) to coat each pass tight and precise. Aside from that, dye based ink absorbs faster into paper.

Hello Forsurchi, the deal is, do you actually read the flow of the discussion? The thread starter, Cheap_Ink_Wanted, uses dye-based printer and purchased Kyson CIS with dye ink meant for his printer. He was sharing his user experience with Kyson system he bought. Nothing amiss here. In fact, very useful for those who were exploring and wondering about kyson ink & sytem.

You have to realize pharmacist & shrey were not asking what is the difference between pigment and dye ink. Neither were they asking can pigment ink be used on printer that primarily used dye-based ink. Pharmacist knows the about the issue on using pigment ink on dye-based printer because the discussion had been raised before in other thread. Pharmacist merely wanted to find out what ink did Cheap_Ink_Wanted used whether if it's pigment ink as the way kyson advertises on their web, seems as if it's saying that their K4 pigment ink can be use on Canon printer model which uses dye-based ink. Hence, Pharmacist wanted to know Cheap_Ink_Wanted's user experience with Kyson CIS if he is using K4 pigment ink.

Another point is that shrey specifically selected and ordered and paid for pigment ink with kyson CIS but received ink somewhat that looks like dye ink. And has the characteristics of the dye inks. You need to top up additional of $35 apart from the listed price of the kyson system if buyer chooses pigment ink. She is expecting some fade resistence along with other properties of a pigment ink since she is supposed to receive pigment ink from Kyson. Which apparently seems to perform more like a dye ink.

Whether she should be using pigment ink on her printer that uses dye ink is not the discussion here. Probably just like what you said, to use pigment ink on printer that primarily uses dye ink, the user is asking for problems. But that is shrey decision. As a matter of fact, all buyers decision when they diverted away from how their equipment is to be used. Whatever problems a buyer eventually encounter, the buyer will be the one to face and live with that consequences of his/her choice knowing that the printer is built for and uses dye-based ink but the buyer chooses pigment ink instead. Maybe she is experimenting with the idea of using pigment ink on her printer which uses dye-based ink or trying out ....or ......etc...... I don't know.

You have great knowledge on printer & ink. Try to show off such knowledge at the right discussion or just express your comment on the questions being asked. The only part which I see your comment relates to the discussion here is where you express your opinion for people who wishes to use pigment ink to go with Epson instead of trying kyson pigment ink on printer that do not used pigment (other than the pigment black ink).

If you want to go with a pigmented print, then go with an Epson printer. As of now, HP, Lexmark, Dell, and Canon only pigment the black ink. Epson is the only company that sells pigmented for all their colors (which is why their favorized by photographers).

Your knowledge will be very useful at the intended and right discussion.