How NOT to fail with the German Refilling method

[panos]

To keep all systems working at maximum efficiency, as intended, why not put a small patch of electrical tape over the refill hole? It is no cost, easy insurance.

Two reasons:

First, when I tried the method it worked without tape. So I kept on without tape. Now after 3 years I am convinced it's unnecessary.

Second, I have the worst experiences of using tape as an air or ink sealant. If there are microscopic drops of ink on your refill hole and they connect the sponge to the tape you might get an ink streak and a leak.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Second, I have the worst experiences of using tape as an air or ink sealant. If there are microscopic drops of ink on your refill hole and they connect the sponge to the tape you might get an ink streak and a leak.

Can you show us an example?

 

[ghwellsjr]

ghwellsjr thanks for the response

The reason I made those points is that I searched the forum extensively this last couple of days and I found out that many people are doing various modifications in the method but they all post problems under the umbrella name "German" or "Durchstich". I find this unfair to new users because the method works perfectly well for me and, as it seems, to others.

It's unnecessary to provide more information about the required type or the size of the needle as it is clearly shown on Pharmacist's illustrated instructions. The instructions are also quite clear as to how and where ink should be injected.

Of course one may wish to modify or add new steps but I believe problems should not be blamed on the original method then but rather on the modified versions.

That's the point.

Pharmacist's illustrated instructions are not the original method. The original method, as you indicated, was pointed out to us on this forum by Defcon2k and his linked video did not specifically say where the hole should be placed and it did specifically indicate to top off the reservoir. That was where I learned the German method and when I finally got around to doing it the first time, I based it on what I had learned there.

Furthermore, pharmacist has posted more than one set of instructions and in this one, it sure looks to me like the hole is as close to the bottom of the cartridge as possible. Not only that, the article he made posted here ends with my video where I clearly show the hole right at the edge. This video was approved by pharmacist.

There had been a lot of discussion about exactly where to put the hole and I got the idea that if you used some compatible cartridges, you had to put the hole above the bottom because the filter on the outlet port extended into the sponge and you didn't want to pierce the filter but as long as you were using OEM, you could go all the way to the bottom because the filter did not extend into the sponge. Nobody ever said it is important to go through the sponge in order to avoid any problem and many people expressed the idea that going through the sponge was not a good idea. The only discussion I heard about a potential problem with what the needle could do was expressed by those who didn't like the German method at all.

So I think it is unfair for you to claim that it is unfair for these "modified" instructions to lead new users astray. We are all trying for the best success for all methods. No one is purposely trying to create any problems.

I guess if I'm going to get answers to my questions about the size of the needle and sharp vs blunt, I'm going to have to experiment myself.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

The German video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN03kUERQhU actually shows the needle in two different positions.

They top up the ink chamber too.

And you say not to "overfill", by which I assume you mean to top up the ink chamber after you let the sponge fill. Darned if I know why you would think that. You say the printer will warn you in time. That may be fine for your printer, but what if it's not enough for someone else's? They could burn out a print head.

I agree partly with your rules, but some of them are dubious. Let's just say they are contested.

 

[ghwellsjr]

Let's look at the rules that defcon2k stated in his original declaration of the German method and from his follow-on comments:

He specifically says to pierce a long needle through the sponge and his third picture clearly shows the needle going through half the sponge and emerging at the bottom of the cartridge on its way to the hole between the two chambers.

He also specifically says to "Fill the ink reserve chamber, let the sponge absorb ink till it's full, and fill the chamber again nearly completly."

On that same original post (#15) he has a link to a second video where he shows topping off all five cartridges in his printer long before they are empty.

Two posts later (#17) he says "don't let the sponge become too dry for best results."

On that same post he says "you also can use the syringe on it's way out to force some ink into a dry sponge."

On post #21 he says his needle is 0.9 mm which is 20 gauge and he says other sizes will probably work.

In post #47 he says he refills before the reservoir gets empty which is when the printer reports a low condition--long before the printer reports empty.

In that same post he says he fills the reservoir to 99% with only a little bubble in it.

In post #62 he specifically says that a sharp needle will allow you to steer the direction of the path of the needle by rotating it.

In post #75 he says "you can plug up the refill hole after the refill, but it is considered unnecessary."

In post #79 he recommends refilling the cart while the sponge is still wet.

On another thread, he states that the reason he uses sharp needles is because that's what his refill shop sent him and since they worked he never tried blunt needles.

In this post, he once again states that he injects ink directly into a dry sponge before refilling with the German method.

So to summarizw defcon2k's opinion about these rules:

#1 Although he doesn't seal the refill hole, he sees no problem doing it.

#2 We all agree that we should only use OEM cartridges.

#3 He disagrees, he injects ink into a dry sponge before or after refilling the reservoir.

#4 He disagrees, he always refills before the reservoir is empty, long before the cartridge is empty.

#5 He never discusses where the hole should be but he did put his above the bottom of the cartridge and he has only used sharp needles, but we don't know what he would have done if he had been delivered blunt needles.

#6 He disagrees, he always completely fills the reservoir to 99%.

#7 We all agree that we should use good quality ink.

So the only rule in question that he might agree with is one the pharmacist specifically disagreed with in the thread that you linked to in your first post. It's post #78 where pharmacist says "The best way is to go under the sponge."

So now your acclaimed experts both disagree with your stated rules. In fact, defcon2k never set himself up as expert, he merely described what worked for him.

It is entirely possible that you happened to have stumbled on a set of procedures that is the best but please don't claim that these procedures were "the method as it was introduced to the forum by Defcon2k and later streamlined by Pharmacist" as you stated in post #9.

However, if we want to promote your procedures as being the best, don't you think you should disclose your needle size and whether it is sharp? I think that could be just as important as all your other rules.

 

[panos]

So I think it is unfair for you to claim that it is unfair for these "modified" instructions to lead new users astray. We are all trying for the best success for all methods. No one is purposely trying to create any problems.

I have to reply to this and I am afraid that had I done so earlier I would have helped diffuse what I feel as anger directed to me.

Modifications and best intentions is what brought me to this forum. I never thought that your modifications did not have a point (and in fact I thought at first that the tape was a good idea). I won't discuss the possibility of my consideration of purposeful creation of problems and I am hurt that you stated it could have been so.

My comment about unfair to new users is not about the modifications themselves but the fact that some problems found on modified versions are blamed on the generic German method name.

I hope that sheds a better light on my intentions. I will reply on your points in my following message.

 

[panos]

Defcon's posting of the method to our forum included a few instructions, photos and a video. Of his photos, this one remains. It's clear that the refilling hole is not at the baseline of the cartridge. The same is true in his video where it is also obvious that he doesn't use tape. Of course as this posting was made on a very generic thread, a lot of comments were posted. I don't think his additional comments reconstruct the German method. A method is not renewed when its inventor or its publisher accepts the functionality of a modification. The Durchstich method was first posted at the druckerchannel.de forums and this is the first original photo of the method in practice.

To make matters more clear, Pharmacist made simple, clear instructions for the method and presented in a form that was made official by Rob. Based on this fact and considering that I see no differences between Pharmacist's, Defcon's and the original druckerchannel's, I consider Pharmacist's version as the official German method in this forum. As Pharmacist is active on the forum he may wish to say if my points are in accordance to his directions or not.

You also have made a video about the method which while accepted by Rob in the official article, it does have differences when compared to the 3 above. These modifications were made with the best of intentions such solving the problem of finding long sharp needles. Unfortunately they may have caused you problems. For example, now that I look at the video more carefully I noticed that ink is following very quickly the syringe as you remove it, due to the syringe creating a path between the sponge and the base. That makes me realize that tape was not an issue of an aversion to the open refill hole but a rational approach to what seemed to be an approaching leak.

Finally I wish to make clear that my point about overfilling is not a point about topping. There is no problem with topping, I was doing it in the past but not any longer due to the counter warning and the extended auto cleaning cycles that result from ingoring it. My point about overfilling is due to leaks arising from injecting at a full ink chamber.

 

[martin0reg]

my 2 cents
#1 You don't have to seal the refill hole, especially if you refill more often.
You can seal the refill hole if you are afraid of this irregular hole - but you have to make a clean cut edge after drilling the hole, to avoid contact of ink with the tape. (But even then no ink would really drip OUT, because it don't drip out of the outlet port either)
#3 Never refill in the sponge, you have to refill in the ink chamber.
If a sponge does not absorb, you can try to "prime" the sponge by carfully inject some of the ink in the sponge. This should not be necessary with a good sponge which is still wet with ink.
#4 While refilling the old ink should not be pressed in the upper sponge or through the air vent. This happens if the air in the ink chamber can not escape through the sponge, e.g if old ink in the sponge is blocking the air.
#5 With a sharp needle you have to control the direction by turning the syringe. With a blunt needle the first piercing may be difficult, depending on the condition of the sponge.
#6 Do not overfill in the sponge - but you have to fill the ink chamber 95% to the top so that the resetted chip reports low ink before it is empty...

 

[pharmacist]

To make matters more clear, Pharmacist made simple, clear instructions for the method and presented in a form that was made official by Rob. Based on this fact and considering that I see no differences between Pharmacist's, Defcon's and the original druckerchannel's, I consider Pharmacist's version as the official German method in this forum. As Pharmacist is active on the forum he may wish to say if my points are in accordance to his directions or not.

Actually all credits go to defcon2k, but I saw this method in the early days at the druckerchannel.de where it called the Ritchman method. Yes I did not modify the principles of the original method: sharp needles and 2" long needles and no sealing of the refill hole, exactly as depicted on the druckerchannel.de website. These are the basics of the original method and has served me well without any dripping or leaking from the refill hole when done properly and using good quality refill ink.

 

[ghwellsjr]

As I pointed out, pharmacist has stated that "The best way is to go under the sponge." Maybe in his first set of instructions, he actually used a sharp needle and went through the sponge and then later was convinced that going under the sponge was better because you could use a blunt needle.

In my video, you see ink trailing the exiting needle because I am continuing to eject ink into the dry sponge, it's not flowing out of the reservoir on its way to leaking out the refill hole on its own accord.

My suggestion for taping the hole originally had nothing to do with leaks. It had only to do with the moisture content of the ink being depleted. I referred to it as the ink drying out. That's what I proved happens over a long period of time. Apparently you missunderstood what I meant by ink drying out because in your first post you said:

"As I have used this method for such a long time I believe it's safe to say that the open refill hole poses no problems. I never had a leak. And no issues on drying either; I own a second printer which I use very infrequently and last time I used it it was turned off for 9 months. The printer had 2 durchfilled cartridges and 2 new ones. They had all dried out on the exit port in exactly the same manner and they were all fixed in the same manner."

It wasn't ink drying out on the exit port that I'm concerned about--it's a reduction in the level of the ink in the reservoir that I'm concerned about. If you had noted the level of the ink in the reservoirs of your four cartridges before you turned your printer off and then noted the levels 9 months later, you would have seen that they all went down but the two that had uncovered refill holes would have gone down even more, probably three times as much. That's what happens when you don't cover your refill holes. Now where do you think that ink went? It goes into the sponge to replace the water that has evaporated out of the ink in the sponge. And the result is that the concentration of the colors in the ink in the sponge goes up. The ink gets darker than it should be. That's why Canon designed in the serpentine air path in the top of the cartridge, to minimize this problem.