Help with fading photos

[Whiskey]

Hello all!

I have a Canon Pro-100

I have refilled the carts with Image Specialists ink

I am using Kirkland Photo paper, the 4x6 size.

I have many photos that are perfectly fine, no fading at all, some are 13x19 on Canon paper behind glass, others are on HP paper, but it's hard for me to know when the Canon ink ran out and the new ink started, or when my HP paper ran out and my Kirkland paper started - so I'm trying to track down the cause.

The most recent deck of photos I printed I was NOT careful with. They are engagement pictures that I took to work to show people. About 10 of them. The top photo in the deck faded so badly it has gone sepia toned, the color is almost gone. Every photo that was under it has a faded ring around the border but the center of the photo is fine.

These photos were handed to people, flipped through, put in my shirt pocket, they are only about 2 months old, but they sat on my desk under florescent light never protected. However I have other photos that were stapled to my cube wall that are older with no problems at all.

What is the most likely cause of this? Could it be the paper not protecting the ink from the air? Or is it most likely the ink fading from light exposure? I'm trying to figure out what experiments I can do to find and eliminate the cause.

Thank you for your help!
Whiskey

 

[Roy Sletcher]

Hello all!

I have a Canon Pro-100

I have refilled the carts with Image Specialists ink

I am using Kirkland Photo paper, the 4x6 size.

I have many photos that are perfectly fine, no fading at all, some are 13x19 on Canon paper behind glass, others are on HP paper, but it's hard for me to know when the Canon ink ran out and the new ink started, or when my HP paper ran out and my Kirkland paper started - so I'm trying to track down the cause.

The most recent deck of photos I printed I was NOT careful with. They are engagement pictures that I took to work to show people. About 10 of them. The top photo in the deck faded so badly it has gone sepia toned, the color is almost gone. Every photo that was under it has a faded ring around the border but the center of the photo is fine.

These photos were handed to people, flipped through, put in my shirt pocket, they are only about 2 months old, but they sat on my desk under florescent light never protected. However I have other photos that were stapled to my cube wall that are older with no problems at all.

What is the most likely cause of this? Could it be the paper not protecting the ink from the air? Or is it most likely the ink fading from light exposure? I'm trying to figure out what experiments I can do to find and eliminate the cause.

Thank you for your help!
Whiskey

What's done is done. As you say no records or circumstances of the prints were recorded. Diagnosis will be conjecture at best unless you can add to the facts.

Best to print another series of test images under controlled conditions and store/display them also under controlled conditions. Then evaluate or measure the result.

The good news that at 4 x 6 it is not going to be expensive.

RS

 

[Whiskey]

Very true!
But,... should I buy another paper to compare against? If so what paper should I try?

Thank you!
Whiskey

 

[3dogs]

Hello all!

I have a Canon Pro-100

I have refilled the carts with Image Specialists ink

I am using Kirkland Photo paper, the 4x6 size.

I have many photos that are perfectly fine, no fading at all, some are 13x19 on Canon paper behind glass, others are on HP paper, but it's hard for me to know when the Canon ink ran out and the new ink started, or when my HP paper ran out and my Kirkland paper started - so I'm trying to track down the cause.

The most recent deck of photos I printed I was NOT careful with. They are engagement pictures that I took to work to show people. About 10 of them. The top photo in the deck faded so badly it has gone sepia toned, the color is almost gone. Every photo that was under it has a faded ring around the border but the center of the photo is fine.

These photos were handed to people, flipped through, put in my shirt pocket, they are only about 2 months old, but they sat on my desk under florescent light never protected. However I have other photos that were stapled to my cube wall that are older with no problems at all.

What is the most likely cause of this? Could it be the paper not protecting the ink from the air? Or is it most likely the ink fading from light exposure? I'm trying to figure out what experiments I can do to find and eliminate the cause.

Thank you for your help!
Whiskey

I agree, messing about trying to backtrack is a waste of time. Had you kept good records and been able to identify which did and which did not, OMHO is not advancing the cause.

Fact is you now have an ink paper combo, me, I'd simply reprint the images that are fading and replicate the conditions as best you can. Then there is something to analyse that is a certainty.

Record what when and how on the back if each print, and diarise progress on the back of each too.

Good luck

Andrew

 

[Whiskey]

I agree, backtracking is definitely a waste of time.

I have a paper/ink combo that I know will fade. I would like to use a different paper as well to compare against.
I will print multiple copies of each, store one in darkness exposed to air, one covered in darkness, and one lying around on a table exposed to light and air then compare the fade resistance over the next month.

My question is, what is a good quality paper for die based inks that people have had good luck with? I would like to compare the kirkland paper against a known good paper to see if changing the paper will yield positive results.

Thank you,
Whiskey

 

[costadinos]

The problem is you are using dye inks and expecting them to be fade resistant, which they are definitely not. 2 months are more than enough for most 3rd party dye ink prints to fade, especially when in contact with the air and in the light. You mention it's the top print on the stack that faded, which would indicate that what happened is the normal light and gas fading as it was the only one exposed.

As long as you are using dyes no paper is going to give you satisfactory results in terms of fade resistance. The best option would be some microporous paper, but these tend to be really expensive, so you might as well spend a little more and use pigments instead. Or you can try laminating a print and use that as a reference.

Here's an old test I performed using various dye inksets on various papers:

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/dye-ink-fade-test-ocp-vs-is-vs-ir-vs-fotorite.7865/

As you can see all 3rd party inks were outperformed by the OEM and pigment inks by a long margin, regardless of the paper used.

 

[Whiskey]

The problem is you are using dye inks and expecting them to be fade resistant, which they are definitely not. 2 months are more than enough for most 3rd party dye ink prints to fade, especially when in contact with the air and in the light. You mention it's the top print on the stack that faded, which would indicate that what happened is the normal light and gas fading as it was the only one exposed.

As long as you are using dyes no paper is going to give you satisfactory results in terms of fade resistance. The best option would be some microporous paper, but these tend to be really expensive, so you might as well spend a little more and use pigments instead. Or you can try laminating a print and use that as a reference.

Here's an old test I performed using various dye inksets on various papers:

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/dye-ink-fade-test-ocp-vs-is-vs-ir-vs-fotorite.7865/

As you can see all 3rd party inks were outperformed by the OEM and pigment inks by a long margin, regardless of the paper used.

Perfect! This is exactly what I'm looking for. It looks like the Epson paper greatly outperformed the cheap papers.

I will buy some of the Epson paper today, compare that against the Kirkland paper and some HP everyday paper that I already have.

Since my photos are not exposed to direct sunlight, and my 4x6 photos are not typically kept forever, it is conceivable that the better quality paper may meet my needs.

Thank you for doing this test!
Whiskey

 

[Roy Sletcher]

The problem is you are using dye inks and expecting them to be fade resistant, which they are definitely not. 2 months are more than enough for most 3rd party dye ink prints to fade, especially when in contact with the air and in the light. You mention it's the top print on the stack that faded, which would indicate that what happened is the normal light and gas fading as it was the only one exposed.

As long as you are using dyes no paper is going to give you satisfactory results in terms of fade resistance. The best option would be some microporous paper, but these tend to be really expensive, so you might as well spend a little more and use pigments instead. Or you can try laminating a print and use that as a reference.

Here's an old test I performed using various dye inksets on various papers:

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/dye-ink-fade-test-ocp-vs-is-vs-ir-vs-fotorite.7865/

As you can see all 3rd party inks were outperformed by the OEM and pigment inks by a long margin, regardless of the paper used.

Whilst broadly in agreement with your main points, I feel your comment, and I quote, "2 months are more than enough for most 3rd party dye ink prints to fade, especially when in contact with the air and in the light." is somewhat overstated.

Anybody experiencing severe fading in a couple of months needs to seriously revisit their ink/paper/environment/storage conditions.

I know you will find it tiresome for me to say this, but I have dye ink prints on my walls, some as wraps, and some under glass, that have resisted significant fading for up to five years. Bright light and some gentle sun in most cases.

Mainly precision Colours inks with several different substates.

I am sure we will get all sorts of answers between 2 months and five years for dye ink longevity. Will be interesting if others give their anecdotal opinions.

Roy Sletcher
Another blast from the skeptics tank

 

[mikling]

The fading from the edges suggest a source of exposure to air as the prime culprit since UV will not travel very well along the edge of the paper. The air might be in line of some source of ozone...Check wikipedia out and see if the prints were exposed to any source of ozone.

Do bear in mind the following:
http://www.printerknowledge.com/thr...ave-inversely-bad-ozone-fade-resistance.9226/

This suggests that unless fade tests are carefully controlled with respect to control of ozone exposure, they might be of little use. Fade tests need to control both the UV and ozone variables carefully to be useful and the test must hold each one in check while testing for the other variable. Knowing whether UV is the challenge or ozone is important. Swellable papers is one line of defense against ozone but they have all but disappeared from the current market.

 

[3dogs]

The problem is you are using dye inks and expecting them to be fade resistant, which they are definitely not. 2 months are more than enough for most 3rd party dye ink prints to fade, especially when in contact with the air and in the light. You mention it's the top print on the stack that faded, which would indicate that what happened is the normal light and gas fading as it was the only one exposed.

As long as you are using dyes no paper is going to give you satisfactory results in terms of fade resistance. The best option would be some microporous paper, but these tend to be really expensive, so you might as well spend a little more and use pigments instead. Or you can try laminating a print and use that as a reference.

Here's an old test I performed using various dye inksets on various papers:

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/dye-ink-fade-test-ocp-vs-is-vs-ir-vs-fotorite.7865/

As you can see all 3rd party inks were outperformed by the OEM and pigment inks by a long margin, regardless of the paper used.

Could not disagree more if I tried, further, base on hard evidence, and similar to others who will disagree

I have prints laying around up here made on the Canon 9000 on Xerox iGen34 200 gsm colour laser copier paper over a year old getting DIRECT sun twice a day, Canon matte paper the same, prints over three years old no fade.

I have prints strewn about overlapping, no fade.

I too can set up fade test to fail............ what the OP is seeking is good advice.

If you want durability from dye based inks for print for home there are some must do's

Expect to have to reprint after several years, the time will depend on a number of factors over which only you have control

Paper quality, not price, avoid brighteners
Ink quality, others with wider experience with a variety of DB inks will advise you here
Print quality, a printer/ink/paper combo that is KNOWN to have durability
Handling, by you...your hands/ fingers are acid (as we all are)
Surface protection viz spray
Mounting with Acid free media and tapes
Appropriate glass
and finally, like a shop front.......location, location, LOCATION.

Enjoy and good luck