Help with fading photos

[Smile]

Slow flading dye inks are OEM dye inks, used with quality paper. The paper is users preference, but that required ICC profile to be made for that combo.

I print on OEM and third party dye and like it much morethan pigment, but photos are fol albums and photo books only.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

The problem is you are using dye inks and expecting them to be fade resistant, which they are definitely not. 2 months are more than enough for most 3rd party dye ink prints to fade, especially when in contact with the air and in the light. You mention it's the top print on the stack that faded, which would indicate that what happened is the normal light and gas fading as it was the only one exposed.

As long as you are using dyes no paper is going to give you satisfactory results in terms of fade resistance. The best option would be some microporous paper, but these tend to be really expensive, so you might as well spend a little more and use pigments instead. Or you can try laminating a print and use that as a reference.

Here's an old test I performed using various dye inksets on various papers:

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/dye-ink-fade-test-ocp-vs-is-vs-ir-vs-fotorite.7865/

As you can see all 3rd party inks were outperformed by the OEM and pigment inks by a long margin, regardless of the paper used.

I'm open to correction, but I'm pretty sure there are only two types of paper surfaces in use. The original was "swellable polymer," with which the dyes dove deep into and became fairly locked into the surface matrix. These papers, by Ilford, HP, and others gave as good as could be hoped for longetivity with dye inks.

Along came microporous, which can be readily identified by alleging that they are "fast drying." For pigment inks, just what the doctor ordered.

Since HP started moving into pigment inks, they have two lines of paper, at least as of several years ago. (I've not bought arty paper in a few years.) The HP microporous are called "Advanced." I presume all the others are swellable gelatin.

To my knowledge, Canon has only used microporous for many years. Which is really odd since they only came out with their first pigment printers a few years ago. And the SG papers give better life with dye inks, which bless 'em, Canon refuses to move away from.

I know nothing about Epson papers. Just checking, it looks like Ilford has dropped the Galerie Classic paper, the SP version. Only Smooth, the microporous now.

If I'm wrong, I'm listening!

 

[Smile]

"swellable polymer," papers are better yes, such paper is HP premium plus photo paper 280gsm 20sht pack. Very expensive but worth it if used with dye ink and custom profile.

Another very cool paper is HP PT-101 (Platinum Pro) it has this special layer that adds gloss like I never seen before, it's micro porous as if you touch it after printing no gelatin will stick to your finger etc.

But quality dyes do matter as much as paper does.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Fluorescent light has a lot of UV. I don't find your fading to be surprising. I have described my experience with it here:
http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/why-ink-and-lighting-matter.9150/#post-71819

My print showed streaks where light had come in--as in, streaks of light. The streaks specifically eliminate gas as the cause of fading. In your stack of prints the edges were exposed to light, and that's where the fading occurred. The photo on the top was almost completely bleached.

Most tests of light fading (especially the well-designed, professional tests) carefully filter out all UV. In general, however, prints are rather likely to be exposed to a heavy dose of UV light under fluorescent lighting. UV photons are highly energetic, and presumably more able to cause light damage than visible light.

I have found that some inks are much more susceptible to light fading than others, while others are pretty good. I expect my work to last, hopefully even in the hands of other people, who may expose it to UV. Although the medium has a big effect on longevity, I have also found that the same inks are relatively susceptible compared to other inks, on all media. It's not that difficult to compare inks with your own test. The key is that the test has to be accelerated, and that means strong light. The light has to be sufficiently strong to cause pronounced, unmistakable fading during the time of testing.

 

[The Hat]

A good method to test your inks is to do your print out (3 sets) on all the kinds of paper you have or would like to use and then place 1 set in a room with florescent lamps in use for 10 hours a day.

Then another set placed in a window that will get the maximum daylight and the third set to be placed in an envelope, dated then put away in a drawer.

Now come back in six months and lay out the 3 sets on a table and you’ll have your answer, either all will fade or only some, job done..

You are welcome to come back and give us your findings especially if you find one particular Media that worked..

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Or you can wrap them around a fluorescent tube for a faster answer.

I understand that no one wants to go to the trouble of emptying cartridges and purging the printer a bunch of times to change ink, so they take the easy way out and just compare photo papers instead of comparing inks. Interestingly enough, when comparing inks, printing on photo paper gave me essentially the same answer as spreading a nice even layer on plain paper, which is easier.

 

[3dogs]

Or you can wrap them around a fluorescent tube for a faster answer.

I understand that no one wants to go to the trouble of emptying cartridges and purging the printer a bunch of times to change ink, so they take the easy way out and just compare photo papers instead of comparing inks. Interestingly enough, when comparing inks, printing on photo paper gave me essentially the same answer as spreading a nice even layer on plain paper, which is easier.

I like this idea, if i understand what you are saying is a person could have a selection of papers, and a selection of ink, then using say a small brush simply create swatches without having to print at all.........brilliant!!

 

[The Hat]

I have a test underway at present of Prodinks and I.S. pigment inks, it won’t be ready till the end of Jan or Feb next year.

I don’t expect to see much difference in either of these two inks but one never know, I have never tested pigment inks for fading or discolouration before.

It’s just pure devilment on my part..

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I like this idea, if i understand what you are saying is a person could have a selection of papers, and a selection of ink, then using say a small brush simply create swatches without having to print at all.........brilliant!!

Possibly brilliant, but others have done it before me. I used a glass slide to create a uniform layer on paper. That works quite well.

I haven't tried much with photo paper, but it may be a bit harder to get a correct coating unless you print. There you have to worry about flooding, and make sure to get the full protective benefit of soaking in. Oddly enough, you don't always get that benefit even when printing.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

"swellable polymer," papers are better yes, such paper is HP premium plus photo paper 280gsm 20sht pack. Very expensive but worth it if used with dye ink and custom profile.

Another very cool paper is HP PT-101 (Platinum Pro) it has this special layer that adds gloss like I never seen before, it's micro porous as if you touch it after printing no gelatin will stick to your finger etc.

But quality dyes do matter as much as paper does.

A lot of the price points having to do with photo papers typically have more to do with the paper stock than the emulsion. It's human nature to think that a heavy paper is automatically somehow superior to a thinner paper.

I have two stocks of HP "swellable polymer" papers. One is "Everyday" glossy, thin stock, cheap. The other is "Premium Glossy." While a case could be made that the latter makes a better image than the former, the difference is minimal and could well fall into the "personal prefence" range. Or, experiment with your printer settings, and the cheap paper might do as well as, or better, than the more expensive paper.

Well over a decade ago I accidentally discovered a wonderful "all around" paper. Royal Brites double sided matte. Obviously swellable polymer. Setting the Canon printers I've owned on "Matte," the output is almost identical to official Canon paper! Yes, a bit warmer, both in color and B&W. I bought some additional stock of this paper a year ago, it's that good.

I know this has little to do with "fading photos," sorry.