Freedom Refill Method for Canon BCI 3, 5, 6 & CLI 8 & PGI 5 and others

[ThrillaMozilla]

What I would like to achieve now is to know if the seal between the [Inktec] clip/insert and the outlet port on the cartridge is air tight. ...do the air tightness test under water with a completely dry cartridge.

It took me a while to get to this. The results are better than I expected.

I don't have a transparent cartridge, but I did it by weight. I sealed the vent of a dry HP564XL magenta cartridge with two big lengths of gunky black electrical tape. Then I used an Inktec clip with a 10 mL plastic Luer-Slip syringe. The cartridge capacity, as I recall, is 10 mL. I clipped it into an Inktec filler in the usual way and immersed the assembly in water. I drew back the syringe all the way and held it for about 10 seconds or so. That should give a pretty good vacuum (about 0.5 atm). I the syringe and cartridge before and after immersion, after wiping thoroughly to remove external water.

The syringe gained 0.000 g. The cartridge gained 0.491 g. I looked, and there was no water in the internal volume of the Inktec adapter, so I would say that adapter-syringe part of it was virtually perfect. The actual performance with air instead of water might be worse, but I don't think it could be much worse.

I'm pretty sure the main leak is along the edge of the label, where it's hard to get the tape down and sealed. It's probably possible to do better, but I expect that this will usually be the main vacuum leak.


By the way, very nice results, Gigigogu! Users of opaque cartridges everywhere thank you.

Just finished 300 pages print job, without any problem (mostly black text on solid color backgrounds, plain paper, standard quality, Pixma 5000, CMY cartridges refilled with Freedom Method).

Also nice!

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Oh, darn, I accidentally deleted this message, which was posted shortly after this post: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=46149#p46149 . I'm surprised the forum software would let me do that.


That's the spirit, gigigogu! I'm still puzzled what went wrong. I guess you probably have a good vacuum.

I tried with 5 sponge-only HP cartridges (non-XL HP564), and had no trouble filling the sponges to the correct weight. And the few vacuum-fill videos I have seen all seem to show lots of ink flowing easily into the sponge when vacuum is released. A partial vacuum could leave a lot of air in the sponge, and this could in theory block flow of ink. But with a sufficiently good vacuum it should be possible to remove sufficient air from the sponge (I think) to prevent this -- provided you don't put any air back from the syringe.

 

[gigigogu]

Just an update.

I finally found the 60 cc syringe with long tip and rubber hoses (exactly from places ghwellsjr said) and I was able to duplicate the tools and method.

Everything went as in ghwellsjr video.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

And I'll add an update. I found some cartridges in the recycle bin (yeah!). As I'm in no hurry to refill them, I thought I'd try an experiment on purging and drying time. I wanted to purge and dry the cartridge to see just how much I might be diluting the new ink with the previous contents of the cartridge. I would purge with 20% isopropanol in water, and I would use it as a dry run for the Freedom Method, of course. The humorous term for it would be "disaster".

Just to be thoroughly casual, and because the other tape I had on hand was kind of nasty electrical tape, I used Scotch tape to seal the vent. I also had a 10-mL syringe for a 10-mL cartridge. A nonstarter. Very poor vacuum, which made it exceedingly difficult to get much into the cartridge, and basically produced a mess, which fortunately I could handle because it wasn't ink. I had a couple of 20-mL syringes. Unfortunately, they were constructed poorly, with a high-friction plunger that's not suitable for vacuum. But I definitely need to seal the vent better to do this. So congratulations to you two both for carrying this out successfully.

EDIT: I mean the tape is a nonstarter, not the syringe. I had a very poor seal on the vent. Just not good enough.

 

[barfl2]

ghwellsjr Freedom method and Inktec clips. I would advise that these clips are NOT SUITABLE FOR THE bci-3BK CART because the HP Pigment cart is 5/8" wide at the bottom whereas the Canon is 3/4". It will not sit square in the clip and therefore does not clip securely, and furthermore is not airtight. Also the Canon is higher as well.

I have tried a BCI-6 Yellow with water and a 60ml oral/enteral syringe which I got from E-bay and was not very well described so has parallel tube outlet. However a piece of plastic tube connects it OK to Clip. However I cannot achieve the desired fill of the cart.

I have got a strong vacuum the first pull fills it approx. halfway, but subsequent pulls just takes out most of what I have put in. I have tried various amounts of water from 10-30ml but I get the same result. Obviously doing something wrong but can not fathom what.. The main thing is that Inktec HP clip will not fit the pigment cart.

But Gigigogu has managed Ok but with identical equipment to your own so that may be crucial.

barfl2

 

[gigigogu]

ThrillaMozilla, barfl2, keep trying, it worth.

My first attempts were messy and with poor results, but immediately after I used a good quality 20 cc syringe and good seals with my contraption, I got clean and fast refills.

Use of ghwellsjr 60 cc bent tip syringe and hose adapter are not mandatory, but are far easier to build and use than my contraption. The only things I do not like are drawing the ink in syringe (and keeping it there) and the bigger dead space in conjunction with my foamy ink.

 

[barfl2]

gigigogu Following your encouragement I had another go. This time achieved sucess using Inktec Clip (modifiedHP364/564) and a 60ml oral/enteral syringe female luer. A short piece of tubing connects syringe to clip.

Pic.2

.

One problem is that the vacuum is so strong that I have a job to pull plunger back as I have a painful shoulder. To achieve sucess I found that inclined the clip/cart downwards with the inlet port facing upwards, pulled the plunger back VERY SLOWLY WATCHING AIR BUBBLES COMING INTO SYRINGE release plunger repeat 6/7 times to fill cart.

This is coloured water not tried Ink yet. good sealing of the vent is essential. I used 2 thicknesses of plastic duct tape. The aluminium variety is great but quite expensive and not justifable for an experiment. This post may interest ghwellsjr who was interested in the Inktec clips. This proves the small one is fine for the coloured carts. The BcI-3bk clip so far no good. There is a wide difference in cart sizes from the HP to Canon, See my previous post on this subject.

So the system works, but the vacuum pressure is too strong for me. Whether this is down to the wrong syringe or not I do not know. but is a step forward.

barfl2

 

[ghwellsjr]

Thanks for your work on this. I'm glad I didn't buy the pigment ink clip.

I'm wondering how you held the apparatus while refilling since you didn't melt the bend into the nozzle on the syringe. Would there be room for everything to fit if you did make that bend?

How about a closeup picture of the connection between the nozzle and the clip?

 

[gigigogu]

Excellent job, barfl2, it seems you are on the right track.

Regarding your difficulty to pull the plunger, try with some air in syringe from beginning, about 15 - 20 cc.

Last days I was pursuing a similar approach, but instead of adapting an existent refill clip, I decided to build one from scratch.

The cartridge is held as it is in printhead, by front and rear hooks, and the clip works for both thin and thick cartridges.

First try was a disaster, as there was a huge dead space inside the outlet port seal, but after filling it with hot glue and preserving only a channel from outlet port to 3 way stopcock it worked fine.
The 3 way stopcock is a little over the top, but allows to draw ink and eliminate air without detaching the syringe.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I'm wondering how you held the apparatus while refilling since you didn't melt the bend into the nozzle on the syringe. Would there be room for everything to fit if you did make that bend?

How about a closeup picture of the connection between the nozzle and the clip?

I don't think you really need that bend. If necessary, you can hold both syringe and cartridge in up or down position, whatever. But I think with your syringe fitting adapter you probably have room. Someone posted closeups of the syringe end of the clip on a previous page. In worst case, I suppose you could just use a piece of tubing.