Fading Performance of HP Dye Inks

[maximilian59]

More than 400 years is proven technology. The eldest handwriten german book is dated to the year 780. So with a good combination of paper and “ink/india ink” or comparable it is possible and nothing special. Also very old books with colored pictures and symbols are existing. So why should it be a problem to have pigmented inks with very high fading resistance?

 

[The Hat]

Also very old books with colored pictures and symbols are existing. So why should it be a problem to have pigmented inks with very high fading resistance?

Very true about the pigment inks but they didn’t use paper back then, that’s why the books are still here..

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

and there is a slight difference for the longevity between mineral or polymer/organic pigments in colorants . Printer companies apparently know how their prints perform in 400 years but are not able ( or willing ?) to give their users any indication, the slightest level of information , any kind of rating, ranking how their inks perform in the next weeks and months - 664, 102, 106, 114 etc or Chromalife 100 or 100+ , GI-53 etc - nothing more than lifelong stability , for generations to come etc.

 

[maximilian59]

Very true about the pigment inks but they didn’t use paper back then, that’s why the books are still here..

Oh, the oldest papers are from about 200BCE, a Chinese part of a map. Found here: History of paper

 

[maximilian59]

WIR 400-Year Permanence Certification

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/eps...WorkForce_Pro_WF-C5710_Printer_2020-03-11.pdf

These are also pigmented inks like in the oldest books and papers found.

And also dyes can last long. Look at all the old clothes in museums. They have all been collared with dyes. Well known is purple from some sea snails.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

That's all more or less interesting, inkjet printing was not used 1500 years ago, and the sea snail purple is not used in any Canon or Epson ink today, it was reserved to some higher ranks of people who could afford it. Canon, Epson etc are publishing various technical details of their products but nothing about the inks, about every user would accept that the longevity of an ink in a entry level printer is lower than in a highly acclaimed photo printer - what is so secret about that information - or whether the 664 and 102 Epson inks are the same but just use a different top on the bottles ? Car companies publish mileage information - o.k. - those numbers don't reflect actual usage very much - people know that - but you can at least compare data betweeen engines of the same manufacturer assuming they use the same tricks for all of them - but it's at least some information you can get - with reservation about the validity nevertheless

 

[maximilian59]

Car companies publish mileage information - o.k. - those numbers don't reflect actual usage very much - people know that - but you can at least compare data betweeen engines of the same manufacturer assuming they use the same tricks for all of them - but it's at least some information you can get - with reservation about the validity nevertheless

You don’t know what they tested and which configuration of the car. And no, the Problems with the Diesel cars showed again, you can’t rely on the figures. They give you a rough estimation, that is all. Canon states on their site a Japanese standard for the tests.
Whether 664 and 102 are identical is not only the ink itself, it is also the coding as you described. It is the designation on the bottle. And if only a small amount of a substance in the ink is different to the other, than the inks are different, even if they have a comparable performance. Maybe the newer one of the both has cheaper substance in it or amount of dye is changed a little bit. That is development to get more money out of it. In my professional life as a developer there was always the questions how to make things cheaper for the next product. Any change let to a new part number.
And even if the inks are at least compatible, you would have to test the behavior if mixed in the tanks for physical and chemical problems, no change in densities and all these things to avoid user complaints.
I think that almost 100% of the users just by a printer and don’t bother about these things. For the amateurs and professionals there are the higher series normally.
Gladly we have now the choices to go cheap with OEM, but can’t expect highest quality for that.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

So the printer manufacturers give enough reason to continue with our own testing

 

[maximilian59]

So the printer manufacturers give enough reason to continue with our own testing

That’s the game. The whole discussion shows we don’t trust the manufacturers. At the moment i think there are only two testers, WIR and Aardenburg Imaging. Both do the tests different, but both show what’s good and what’s bad. This is the same like we do for free, because nobody wants to spend money for it.

 

[ccc]

Find a good Materials Testing lab and get accellerated testing on multiple samples. It won't tell you the absolute life on inks but they can tell you the relative differences, and which is best.