CLI-8 Cartridges, How does the chip really monitor ink?

[canonfodder]

The simplest basis for a class action suit is the fact that Canon does not disclose prior to the sale that there is a requirement for the use of genuine Canon ink cartridges in their later model printers which use chipped cartridges.

 

[Xalky]

What would be the basis for a law suit? Canon has the right to charge what ever they want for their ink carts and we as consumers have the right to decide if we will pay that price or seek an alternative.

Tin Ho wrote this in another thread, which I believe to be the point of contention.

Tin Ho wrote:
To me chipped cartridges is not the issue. It is turning off the printer's ability to detect empty ink tank, when the printer determines that you are using refilled ink cartridges, that's questionable. I am willing to accept the consequence of using 3rd party ink. If the printer clogs and dies and I am willing to lose the warranty but not if Canon sets it up for my printer to be damaged when it finds that you are refilling. Why turning off the detectin mechanism? It's not a function needed to make the printer work nor will it benefit consumers. It is only to invite you to destroy your printer faster.

It's really like a car manufacturer programs a car's computer to overheat the engine when it detects that you are using a 3rd party gas. It of course acknowledges you ahead of time that you would lose warranty. But even if you are willing to accept that condition it still shuts off the engine's overheat detection system so that your engine may melt down during a traffic hour commute.

 

[CPUK]

Hello all, great forum

A well known remanufacturing outlet (in the UK) now has a resetter for these chips. I was curious as to whether anyone else has sourced one?

Well, you can't make a statement like that and not tell us who it is...

Somehow I doubt this is for real though...

Hi websnail

Apologies for not elaborating, feel free to pm me (I presume this forum has that facility?) My statement is genuine, however the machine which originated from Taiwan was hugely expensive.

This is ofcourse great news for refillers (until a replacement chip is produced for compatible suppliers) as we will be the only retailers selling these units with no risk of damaged printheads.

 

[philba]

Hello folks, I'm a new member here - drawn by a search to find out how to reset my PCI-5 tank level indication. It appears to be the same mechanism as the PCI-8. I suspect that the communication mechanism with the chip is I2C which is a 2 wire protocol. I'm sure they do use encryption but given the size and cost of the chip, I doubt it's very heavy because the chip is probably not very powerful. The pin-out doesn't match the 6 pin PICs but I'm pretty sure the chip is in that class (small memory, low speed, ultra low cost). If I were the guy doing the code for the chip (and wanting canon to sell lots of replacement carts), I'd make it so that the tank level could never be reset.

However, it's worth looking at. If some one has access to a logic analyzer, they could probably hook it up to read the communication stream. the newer USB based LAs have protocol analysis so the stream could be pretty well figured out. Maybe it's time to me to get one...

One interesting thing, I believe that I saw somewhere in this thread that a tank can be moved from one printer to another. If that is true then it might suffice to just "record" the message from a full tank and play it back to the printer. If the communication stream can be determined, a cheap replacement chip could be created. Maybe a little "backpack" that fits on the refill tank and takes over the 4 contacts. Just spinning some ideas...

Phil

 

[Stevevo]

We should also be able to chose if we want to refill or take the chance that the 3 party ink will foul the printer.

 

[Xalky]

Hello folks, I'm a new member here - drawn by a search to find out how to reset my PCI-5 tank level indication. It appears to be the same mechanism as the PCI-8. I suspect that the communication mechanism with the chip is I2C which is a 2 wire protocol. I'm sure they do use encryption but given the size and cost of the chip, I doubt it's very heavy because the chip is probably not very powerful. The pin-out doesn't match the 6 pin PICs but I'm pretty sure the chip is in that class (small memory, low speed, ultra low cost). If I were the guy doing the code for the chip (and wanting canon to sell lots of replacement carts), I'd make it so that the tank level could never be reset.

However, it's worth looking at. If some one has access to a logic analyzer, they could probably hook it up to read the communication stream. the newer USB based LAs have protocol analysis so the stream could be pretty well figured out. Maybe it's time to me to get one...

One interesting thing, I believe that I saw somewhere in this thread that a tank can be moved from one printer to another. If that is true then it might suffice to just "record" the message from a full tank and play it back to the printer. If the communication stream can be determined, a cheap replacement chip could be created. Maybe a little "backpack" that fits on the refill tank and takes over the 4 contacts. Just spinning some ideas...

Phil

It sounds to me like you might have some pretty good ideas about defeating the chip. It also sounds like you have the right background to give it a try. I'm listening!

 

[websnail]

I'm sure they do use encryption but given the size and cost of the chip, I doubt it's very heavy because the chip is probably not very powerful.

Just wanted to shove in my 10 penneth worth just to save you some effort or at least ask you to confirm or deny..

My sources indicated that a chip manufacturer took some time (considerable as it turned out) to work on the encryption on these chips and found that the encryption is multilayer... ie: 32bit, 64bit, 128, etc... with each layer being peeled back to show a greater level so they basically gave up in the end. Bearing in the mind that the source supplies a LOT of aftermarket cartridges and was looking to keep their canon market going they would have had to have a LOT of problems for them to give up.

Worth having a direct source to test and maybe beat it all though so just take it with a pinch of salt..

 

[canonfodder]

Grandad35 just PM'd me asking about photos of the Canon Chip which I took apart in order to better understand the little PC Card's connections. I have been remiss in not posting these a long time ago.

Refer back to page 2 of this thread and scan through to see some earlier photos which show the Canon 'chip' with the components in place and identified.

ghwellsjr generously provided the Canon carts from which we took the chips in order to do the investigation. Thank you, gh.

See the photos. I have arbitrarily numbered the contacts and the IC pads.

Contact 1 to IC pin 3. This is either Data I/O or Clock.
Contact 2 to IC pin 6, IC back, & Cap low end. Contact 2 is probably COM or GND.
Contact 3 to IC pin 4. This is either Data I/O or Clock.
Contact 4 to IC pin 1, LED Anode, & Cap hi end. Contact 4 is probably +VDC supply.

Notice that the Die Pad was soldered directly to the COM pads beneath the IC.
IC pin 5 pulls down toward COM or GND to light the LED.
The +VDC would be at least 3.5 V and may be 5V.

COMPONENT SIDE OF 'CHIP' CIRCUIT BOARD

CONTACT SIDE OF 'CHIP' CIRCUIT BOARD

BOTTOM SIDE OF IC FROM 'CHIP' CIRCUIT BOARD

I have the die removed from the epoxy IC package. It is in slightly tough shape. It does show a unique feature. Most of the die top side is covered with a layer of copper. Probably to make it difficult to pry. I have it on my list of tasks to etch away the copper. There is a way to chemically etch copper without eating up the aluminum conductors. When I can I will try to remove the copper and get die photos. I don't know if that is going to work out, but we shall see.

 

[canonfodder]

Just a brief note* about the cartridge prism and the optical detector it is supposed to work with.

Right now, my Pixma iP4200 has 1 OEM cart with the tank quite empty and just the early warning showing.

This printer has 3 refilled OEM carts with the tanks now empty. The OEM carts were declared empty earlier, I had already prepared for and refilled, and did the override actions to allow continued printing.

This printer has 1 OEM cart with the tank half full and the ink monitor properly identifying it as about half full.

With these empty tanks, there is not any warning or stopping of printing for the printer. (I am ready to refill.) So the prism has not produced any results for refilled OR original OEM carts. I am wondering if the prism's optical detector, which is physically present and has wires leaving it, is really included in the software for this printer.

*Well, you can't believe canonfodder's "brief".

 

[vkakula]

"The +VDC would be at least 3.5 V and may be 5V."

The power to this chip is actually 3.3V. The clock runs at 1MHZ and is provided by the printer. I did not note which contact was clk or data.