Canon ip4200 CIS - returning to the fray!

[websnail]

Having taken some time out to battle RIS, AD, winserver2003 and every eventID error under the sun I'm now returning to the battle for sanity that is Canon CIS's

I have about 6 ip4200's in schools that seem to have an on/off relationship with me and today I learned something new..

It may not be the cartridge end that's causing me problems...

You see, today I was working with two printers that had been working just fine for over 4 months, I simply unscrewed the bottles tops for each reservoir and topped them up before replacing the tops and screwing them back on.

One printer is working fine, the other is suddenly showing all the streaking and ink starvation that I was seeing a lot of with the magenta. Eh? thinks I... knowing full well I hadn't removed any cartridges, elevated anything or actually done naff all apart from unscrew some bottle tops and add some ink.

So, perhaps, I've been losing my mind due to something at the reservoir end. Some experimentation is called for but I figured I'd let y'all know...

 

[ghwellsjr]

But, don't jump to conclusions.

Had that printer that started showing streaking been printing correctly just before you topped its bottles off? I don't just mean a nozzle check, had it been printing pages without any problems? It's possible, especially if school has been out for several weeks like many are here in the states, that the printer was ready to have its problems whether you did anything or not. There could have been enough ink to do a good nozzle check but not a lot of printing.

Just a word of caution, due to lack of knowledge about what really happened.

 

[websnail]

Oh don't worry... I've been here before..

The printer was working flat out before the top-up as it was the first in the pool of two and so's you know we have school here for another 2 weeks so believe me when I say it was definitely working

It's something else that may prove a possible vector.. Not sure why it would make a difference but we'll see..

 

[Grandad35]

Websnail,

A few curiosity questions:
1. Does running a "Cleaning cycle" make any difference, even if only for a short while?
2. How often do you typically top off the ink in these printers?
3. What is the typical volume of magenta ink that is added on each refill?
4. How many times has this printer been refilled since the present set of carts was put in place?
5. Once you encounter this type of problem, have you been able to fix the problem at any time in the past? If so, what was the fix and how long does it last?
6. Have you seen the problem on any color other than magenta?

If you have occasion to pull the magenta cart after it starts to band, could you run a test where you:
1. Open the vent over the sponge chamber.
2. Open a hole in the top of the ink chamber (the "refill hole" used for conventional refilling)
3. Refill the ink chamber, leaving the refill hole open.
4. Once the dripping from the exit port has stabilized, count the drip rate from the exit port.
Obviously, the purpose of this test is to get an idea of whether or not the cart's filter is clogged.

 

[websnail]

A few curiosity questions:

Yeee gawds... Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!

Ok... I'll do what I can here...

1. Does running a "Cleaning cycle" make any difference, even if only for a short while?
Not really... I've put tiny amounts of air into the tubing by lifting the lids and tubing out of the ink and then running a cleaning routine so I can see whether the ink is flowing and sometimes it shows a slower rate of movement compared to the other ink colours, other times it's the same.

2. How often do you typically top off the ink in these printers?
I'll top off the ink when around 50ml of ink has been used on most colours, 150ml on the black (so there's usually around 50ml+ left on each)

3. What is the typical volume of magenta ink that is added on each refill?
Ah... I'm starting to realise that the magenta is not the only culprit, just the most obvious... in the Canon ip4200's I've noticed that the inks are used most in this order K, Y, M, C, PK.. so it's usually not too low compared to the yellow.

4. How many times has this printer been refilled since the present set of carts was put in place?
Depending on the unit, some of them have been refilled 5 times already but most have had 2 refills or top-ups.

5. Once you encounter this type of problem, have you been able to fix the problem at any time in the past? If so, what was the fix and how long does it last?
Not really no... Often what's required is for me to switch around cartridges, print heads and move them about between printers until I get lucky.. There's no "one way" to resolve the problems which is what makes this so frustrating.

6. Have you seen the problem on any color other than magenta?
Yes... The problem also repeats somewhat in the Cyan but I'm now realising that pigment black has had issues too but because there's little in the way of a gradient effect there you need to be paying attention to see it.

If you have occasion to pull the magenta cart after it starts to band, could you run a test where you:
1. Open the vent over the sponge chamber.
2. Open a hole in the top of the ink chamber (the "refill hole" used for conventional refilling)
3. Refill the ink chamber, leaving the refill hole open.
4. Once the dripping from the exit port has stabilized, count the drip rate from the exit port.
Obviously, the purpose of this test is to get an idea of whether or not the cart's filter is clogged.

I'll certainly give it a try... FYI: I've done complete purges on cartridges to clean them of gunk and clogs, used part Canon filled inks, and variations of air buffer in each.. As near as I can tell it's not a clogging issue but I'll certainly give it a shot sometime when I've the time and patience

 

[canonfodder]

Websnail,

You have listed in your equipment for CIS: MIS, InkRepublic, and Self-build.

Which CIS are you running with the iP4200 printers that you have posted about here?

If it is your Self-build, could you tell us about its arrangement.

If it is one of the other two, or something else, do you operate as they instruct, or have you found some variation that you prefer?

Thanks, canonfodder

 

[websnail]

You have listed in your equipment for CIS: MIS, InkRepublic, and Self-build.

Which CIS are you running with the iP4200 printers that you have posted about here?

If it is your Self-build, could you tell us about its arrangement.

It's a case of self builds... so the best thing for me to do is take a series of photos of the different parts, layouts, etc... and that'll give you a better idea of the variations I've got working (or not) here.

 

[canonfodder]

Photos will be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[canonfodder]

Websnail, you said:

I've done complete purges on cartridges to clean them of gunk and clogs, used part Canon filled inks, and variations of air buffer in each.. As near as I can tell it's not a clogging issue but I'll certainly give it a shot sometime when I've the time and patience

I know what you refer to when you say "air buffer" but I don't really understand what the function is.

In the instructions that come with an MIS continous ink supply system, they say that the air buffer is necessary to prevent siphoning and thus flooding out of the print head. When I look at just what is connected and the ink path involved, I can imagine a siphon starting if the ink botttle is too high, but I can't imagine that the air buffer could prevent that siphon.

Can you explain this to me? It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[websnail]

When I look at just what is connected and the ink path involved, I can imagine a siphon starting if the ink botttle is too high, but I can't imagine that the air buffer could prevent that siphon.

Can you explain this to me? It would be greatly appreciated.

Basically I've noticed in some of my systems that there's been a certain amount of mechanical back and forward movement with ink flowing back and forward somewhat with printhead movement. The buffer tends to attenuate that a little as air can flex more than fluid... but other than that, in a Canon CIS you have the sponge to attenuate the syphon effect so it's not as important.

To be completely honest though I've tried everything whilst trying to get a consistent CIS built :|