Why I have given up on vacuum refilling.

[pharmacist]

You should search on "durchstich" and "Canon" and you should know that german is "Deutsch" haha ...

 

[Nifty]

DOH!

ghwellsjr, I'd love to see / hear a video in English. I'm especially interested in seeing close-ups of the bottom of the cart as the needle is inserted for the first time. If pharmacist doesn't mind I'd love to add them to this article: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/the-german-durchstich-refill-method.php

I'm still wondering about the pros / cons of a sharp vs. blunt needle. I may play around with testing them a bit on a dummy cart.

 

[pharmacist]

Rob,

you have my agreement. Maybe you could also link my other post with the CLI-221/521/821 and PGI-220/520/820 cartridges with more detailed instructions and with ghwellsjr's future video with the durchstich refill method combined to one online "manual".

 

[Nifty]

Sounds like a great idea! I'll plan on doing an update all at the same time, so as we get closer let me know the specific links / info and I'll add it.

 

[stratman]

An enjoyable post overall by ghwellsjr. What Nifty-Stuff member doesn't like empirical evidence! One would think the refill times between the two cartridges would be quite similar because, well, they use the same cartridges. One could make the case that filling the spongeless side would be faster in the Traditional method because there is no concern over ink dripping out the ink exit port due to increased pressure within the cartridge. However, there may potentially be a very slight advantage to the Durchstitch method with the sponge side because of the potential increased pressure inside the cartridge, though I doubt this would be significant in refill time.

Now if I had included the time it takes to remove and reapply tape over the German refill hole (something I believe should be done), then the traditional method will win hands down.

You didn't mention the time it takes to remove and replace the plug/screw in the Traditional method either.

I disagree that one must cover the Durchstich hole depending on what one plans to do with the cartridge. Long term storage - OK. Immediate or short term storage - not necessary. Much observational data has been presented on this forum supporting each side.

However, I still believe the German method is better for novices mainly because it eliminates the risk of leaky plugs and the need to buy plugs, not to mention, they don't look all that great.

Hmm. If something is easier, cleaner and faster to do, why wouldn't an "expert" like it too? If your point was the Durchstitch method is simpler for a naive (never done before) refiller to begin their refilling experience, then I would agree.

Yes, the Durchstitch method is faster overall because you don't necessarily need to cover the refill hole or replace plugs or screws and the cleanup time is less, as per your own words. My clean up time consists of wiping the needle with a paper towel and placing the needle scabbard back on the needle and replacing the squeeze bottle back on the shelf.

One other benefit of the Durchstitch method is that there is no worry of the refill hole seal being compromised and ink leaking out. That would add a lot of time to the process, tangentially speaking.

Still, great post about actual refilling times. Thanks.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I'm still wondering about the pros / cons of a sharp vs. blunt needle.

The biggest con against using a sharp needle is that you'll likely stab yourself a few times during the course of refilling your cartridges. Let's just hope you don't inject any ink into yourself, or if you do, pray it isn't pigment ink.

Actually, if you needed to pierce through the sponge material or you are using a third-party cartridge that requires piercing through the filter inside the outlet port (because it extends into the sponge material), then you may require a sharp needle. I don't have a sharp needle long enough to use with the German method so I cannot comment on whether there is any problem using one.

With the older chipless cartridges (BCI-3, 5, & 6), a blunt needle has a little trouble overcoming the lip at the entrance to the reservoir, you have to do a lot of rotating of the blunt needle. I would guess that a sharp needle would be easier to overcome this lip because one rotation would get the sharp point above the lip. The newer chipped cartridges apparently do not have this lip, in fact, it looks like they have a groove in the bottom of the cartridge that guides the needle right into the reservoir. How convenient!

If you put the refill hole just a 1/16 inch above the bottom of a Canon cartridge, the needle will slide easily between the bottom of the sponge and the bottom of the cartridge. I cannot say what happens with third-party cartridges because I have never tried one and I don't recommend using them.

 

[ghwellsjr]

You didn't mention the time it takes to remove and replace the plug/screw in the Traditional method either.

I was a little too brief in my description of what I did with the traditional method, I merely referred to the process described in posts #4 and #6. In there a reference is made to the Hobbicolors instructions which include drilling the refill hole and plugging it with one of their plugs. I did measure the time it takes to drill the hole the way they describe (1/8 inch drill, hand-held with a towel and twisted into the 1/8 inch depression over the reservoir) and the time it takes to insert the plug (since I didn't have one of theirs, I used a different one but the time would be the same). For the whole traditional refill process, I included the time it takes to snap on the orange G&G clip over the outlet port and the time it takes to remove the plug and re-insert it at the end.

 

[ghwellsjr]

If something is easier, cleaner and faster to do, why wouldn't an "expert" like it too?

One of the things I have been promoting on this and other threads is the use of Inktec inks supplied in the small syringes. This seems to be the only way to buy Inktec ink in the USA. This, of course, applies to both the traditional and German method. I advise people to only refill the cartridges in their printers, in other words, don't have any spares, and refill (or top off) all your dye ink cartridges whenever any one of them registers low (empty reservoir). Refill just your pigment black when it is low.

When I make my video, you're going to see me poke a hole in a cartrige, take a new Inktec syringe/bottle, unscrew the cover, screw on a blunt 2" needle, squirt some ink into the cartridge, remove and wipe the needle, put a rubber cap on the end of the needle, cover the refill hole with tape, and I'm done. I will leave the needle on the syringe/bottle until it is emptied during a future refill.

For the next refill, I repeat the process, except that I merely remove the rubber cap from the end of the needle and squirt in some more ink, wipe the needle and put the cap back on. This is the process that is especially easy, clean and fast for anyone who wants to use the Inktec ink supplied in the small syringes.

For experts (anyone who already has a supply of bottled ink and has their favorite refill process and a bunch of spare cartridges), it won't be quite as easy, quite as clean, and quite as fast as using the Inktec ink, but it may be cheaper because buying the ink in the small syringe/bottle is maybe twice as expensive as buying larger quantities. In fact, since I have a liter bottle of each of the dye inks, I won't be using the small Inktec syringes for my own refills. Instead, after I make the hole, I will put a clean needle on a clean syringe, suck up some ink from one of my 1-liter bottles, squirt it into a cartridge, repeat for several more cartridges of the same color and finish by cleaning the needle and the syringe, which tends to be messy and takes additional time.

Some other experts, who already have a successful refill process, may not want to deviate from what works perfectly fine for them. And, as I have demonstrated, it may not be any faster, not to mention cleaner or easier.

And there are other experts who believe the sponge material is compromized by the insertion of the needle into the sponge chamber even if it doesn't pierce the sponge. It does deform the sponge and this may affect the ink/air flow properties of the cartridge. In particular, the concern is that air may flow through this depression in the sponge from the refill hole to the outlet port resulting in what appears to be an ink flow problem. I am also concerned about this and that is one of the reasons I recommend covering the refill hole with tape. My philosophy is to keep the very-well-engineered Canon cartridge as much like it was when new. It can never hurt to put the tape on and it may prevent some problems.

Keep in mind that this thread explains why I switched from vacuum refilling to the German method, not from the traditional method to the German method. It has been so long since I used a traditional method, I was unaware of the advances that have been made.

But I have another factor that most other people don't have and that is that I refill cartridges for several of my friends (which explains why I usually refill many cartridges at a time). I always liked the fact that I never had to worry about leaky cartridges or one of my novice friends inadvertantly pulling off the plug required in the traditional method. I'm now gradually introducing my friends to the German method because I feel that it is something they can master easily. I would not say that about the traditional method, not to mention the vacuum method.

 

[stratman]

ghwellsjr:

A well thought out reply.

I prefer using Luer Lock top squeeze bottles primarily for the convenience. I originally favored Inktec ink initially because of their reported quality and it came in ready to go syringes. Because of my penny-pinching ways, I decided to go with another ink brand and quickly gravitated to the efficiencies of squeeze bottles. If I were filling multiple cartridges as you do, I would appreciate the squeeze bottles more, if that's possible. In the end, though, it is a matter of preference. Whatever you prefer is good and I can respect that.

I also use a chip resetter. This adds time to the process but I feel it is worth the additional seconds for fewer worries. From your sig, it looks like you don't need one.

Since I swap cartridges relatively frequently, I am not concerned about evaporation and concentration of ink in filled cartridges. Still, I am going to check out the aluminum tape people have recommended on this forum for closing the refill hole. As an enthusiast, I enjoy learning new methods that can improve and refresh the experience. And I'm sure I can find other uses for the tape too.

 

[Nifty]

Side note: I was browsing youtube for videos on chip resetting and found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJR7wDF_H_o&feature=related

Interestingly enough they are using the German method!