Why I have given up on vacuum refilling.

[Nifty]

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[nanosec]

Websnail, thank you. You just did a much better job in explaining it. I recall that Pharmacist had a post before which had all the details how to deal with this issue. I am sure it can be done reasonably fast still, but not in 10 seconds, I don't think so.

You've made a good point, on very rare occasions are my sponges dry enough to absorb ink. When I refill there's usually a smidge of ink left in the reservoir, and this is done to make sure my print heads never get overheated.

*IF* I have to let a cartridge absorb ink, then yes, i may have to upend it and add ink as it settles into the sponge, and in particular with OCP inks it does take longer for the ink to absorb properly. (more bubbling with OCP)

If however it's a case where not much ink has to be absorbed into the sponge, then yes, the needle insertion and the ink injection is as fast as I say it is. If the needle is inserted properly there is NO backflow when filling.

If the cartridge is bone dry then of course 10 seconds would of course not be accurate. When I refill, I refill 40+ cartridges at a time, so I've made it my mission to try every method given to me and find the best one.

I've tried plugs, sealing the holes with glue (big mistake) and the German method. Refilling is no longer a two hour ordeal where my back is screaming from hunching over ink cartridges trying to keep a seal on the outlet port, run out of ink mid-fill and try to refill the syringe one handed and then drop the syringe and fumble for a plug with latex gloves on.

I also use squeeze bottles (thanks guys) which means no more refilling the syringe mid refill. The use of your index finger to guide the needle is the key with the German method, and after you've done it many many times you'll know exactly where the needle needs to be sitting. (this takes practice but do it enough and it's second nature)

I encourage you to find the needles long enough to try this method, if you're in Canada dollerama has needles that are long enough in their inkjet refill kits that sell for a buck. (had a hard time finding them last time i was in one so YMMV)

I can see where you're happy with your method, but the outlet port is where the problem lies, you have to always maintain a seal on it the minute you open it, or out comes the ink from the bottom. To me this presented the addition problem of cleaning up whenever ink leaked out.

I never found the orange seals so great for sealing after they were taken off the cartridge, in retrospect I suppose I could have used an elastic band to hold it on, but for my using the German method with Canon carts, I've found my happy medium.

I can only speak for refilling Canon cartridges, if I had to fill a different type, then your method would probably be preferred.

And lastly I will say this. When I first tried the German method it was a failure. I went back to using hot glue to reseal. I then decided to restudy the thread on how to do it, and how to properly prep the cartridge for this method. (I use a hot soldering iron to melt a hole, then a long sharp sewing needle to make the channel that the blunt needle slides through.)

The first few times on a new cartridge are a bit tougher until you work that channel in. Once it's been done 2 or 3 times it's a real simple process. And again if your ink is backflowing, you've either not went far enough or TOO far. If you go too far you're actually resting the end of the needle on the prism, which blocks flow.

Hope that clears things up, if we factor in sponge absorbtion from bone dry, then yes 10 seconds is not accurate, but I will
propose to you that it's still *MUCH* faster than the plug method.

Rule of thumb is you should never let your cartridges run that dry or you will be replacing print heads more often.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I got out the plugs and instructions and followed them precisely. Unfortunately, the plugs leak. Am I correct that the plugs don't go in all the way?

Don't blame the plug. Those plugs are the same that came with my G&G cartridges before. They are made for doing exactly what they are meant to do, to seal the fill hole.

If you have to buy plugs, then it costs more than the German method. I appreciate your sharing your information, I have learned something and I don't want you to feel that you are doing anything wrong by having a difference of opinion. Please continue.

That's a good point. The plugs could be hard to come by. If I am running out of such plugs I may return to the German method, assuming I can get 2 inch long needles.

I made a mistake. The plugs I used were not from Hobbicolors, they were from inkjetcartridge.com where I had recently received an order of Inktec ink in the small syringes. Those plugs are intended to go in the hole that is already present in the BCI-6 cartridge after you remove the plastic ball and they seal very well there. It didn't seem right that the plugs should not go in all the way. I did a Google search on "Hobbicolors" and "plugs" and found a picture of the plugs that go in the 1/8 inch hole and there is a big difference. I take back my comment about the plugs leaking.

But, I'm wondering how you buy the plugs from Hobbicolors? I cannot find any mention of them, aside from buying certain packs of ink. Anybody know?

And again, I apologize for the confusion my mistake generated.

 

[avolanche]

I've used several different plugs(including the Hobbicolors-the ink I've used for a long while) and never been fully satisfied.I have not used a plug that seals 100% tightly and 100% of the time.

Like nanosec,I never let the cartridges get dry on the "foam" side as I don't want to take a chance on burning a printhead.

Within these parameters,the German method is faster,easier,cleaner,safer and EASILY my personal choice.

 

[siusiuenen]

I found hot melt glue and plug from Mikling work well for me and also Scotch tapes also work very well to seal the refill hole but i'm not sure if there are chemicals reaction between the tapes and the ink.

 

[ghwellsjr]

I have done timing tests comparing the German to the traditional method of refilling (as described in posts #4 and $6). In all cases, I started with a prefilled syringe and the "empty" cartridge out of the printer. I compared apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

It took me 15 seconds to poke the hole in the end of the cartridge for the German method.
It took me 75 seconds to drill the hole in the top of the cartridge for the traditional method.

It took me 60 seconds to fill a dry-sponge cartridge including injecting ink below the sponge to resaturate the bottom half of the sponge using the German method.
It took me 57 seconds to fill a dry-sponge cartridge allowing time for the ink to saturate the bottom half of the sponge using the traditional method.

It took me 25 seconds to fill a wet-sponge cartridge using the German method.
It took me 26 seconds to fill a wet-sponge cartridge using the traditional method.

I consider the actual fill times to be identical between the German and traditional methods, the major difference in time being how long it takes to make the refill hole between the two methods, which, of course, you only have to do once per cartridge.

Now if I had included the time it takes to remove and reapply tape over the German refill hole (something I believe should be done), then the traditional method will win hands down.

When I made the claim that the German method was faster in post #5, I was mainly considering how long it takes to uncover the tape over the existing refill hole in the top of the reservoir and get that little plastic ball out. That really takes a long time and is very frustrating. I'm glad nche11 described the much easier way of drilling a hole and using the Hobbicolors plugs (which I do not have any of).

However, I still believe the German method is better for novices mainly because it eliminates the risk of leaky plugs and the need to buy plugs, not to mention, they don't look all that great.

 

[Nifty]

What a beautiful post! Not many other people on many internet forums would post that kind of detail about such a project. I love it!

ghwellsjr, a question: When you are refilling using the "traditional method" what do you do to stop the flow of ink out the exit port once the hole is made to the top of the cartridge? For me, I use the clear acrylic clips. They work great, but this definitely adds quite a bit of time to my process (inserting and removing the carts from the clips and cleaning out the clips from ink drips). I'm not well versed in the GRM (German Refill Method) but from what I understand, no clips or ink stopping devices are needed, correct?

 

[Nifty]

To make a hole really easily simply use a sewing needle and heat it up with a lighter, really easy to make a clean hole with that.

I too use a similar method for creating holes in the top of carts. A paperclip and a lighter to heat the tip. I'm going to take a dead cart and see what luck I have with an awl / large sewing needle without heat.


Regarding videos: I'm a HUGE proponent and was very sad that when I went to YouTube looking for some info I only found this note:

No videos found for german inkjet refill method

Imagine if we had a bunch of videos of people using this method? How wonderful would that be?!? Anybody willing to take up the charge?

Also, it would make this discussion a bit more interesting and helpful if we could have this discussion in person with our carts in front of us. Of course that isn't possible, but here's where videos could come in handy once again! We could help troubleshoot where people are having problems with one method or another.

Either way, I think it's been a good discussion and will continue to be one as long as we respect differences of opinion.

Cheers!

 

[ghwellsjr]

Actually, the very first introduction of the German method on this forum was a Youtube video posted by Defcon2k:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=9279#p9279

It's interesting to read the subsequent discussion.

I'll make a video. In fact, I'll make two: one showing the initial filling of a dry virgin cartridge and one showing topping off of a previously refilled wet cartridge.

 

[ghwellsjr]

What a beautiful post! Not many other people on many internet forums would post that kind of detail about such a project. I love it!

ghwellsjr, a question: When you are refilling using the "traditional method" what do you do to stop the flow of ink out the exit port once the hole is made to the top of the cartridge? For me, I use the clear acrylic clips. They work great, but this definitely adds quite a bit of time to my process (inserting and removing the carts from the clips and cleaning out the clips from ink drips). I'm not well versed in the GRM (German Refill Method) but from what I understand, no clips or ink stopping devices are needed, correct?

I have a bunch of clips that came with the G&G cartridges that I used a long time ago before I learned the error of my ways. They clip right onto the cartridge.

I didn't include cleanup time on my tests, but you're right, you do need to clean the clip when done with the traditional method which doesn't apply for the German method.

There is also the added time of preparing the syringe/needle and cleaning them, but this is the same for both the traditional and German methods so I did not include them in my timing comparison. I also did not use gloves for either method.