top fill clearance

[joseph1949]

To: pearlhouse

Per: post #51

Thank you for your reply.

It is my impression based on your post that you have a number of concerns with my post #49. It is also my impression that you read parts of my post, but skipped over other parts. If one or both of my impressions are incorrect please forgive me.

To address your concerns and skipping I will be addressing various parts of your post. I will be going into detail in addressing the parts of your post that are problematical. There is one overriding reason why I am spending time on your post: some newbies may think that your procedures are correct. I believe there are errors in your procedures. Thus, what you read below is my response to your problematical procedures.

First things first: I do not use the German method. I use the top fill method. I use hot glue for my plug material. I have never used aluminum tape in my printers. My correct method was what I would do to make sure that the tape did not leak.

Here is my history in filling carts (this is the short version): I purchased 20 mil ink kits from InkTec. I followed the InkTec instructions. The instructions were junk. I went to Youtube and to this forum to see how to fill carts. I decided to use the top fill method. The top filled method worked, but I was having problems with the soft rubber plugs (the plugs needed 5/32 fill holes) that came with the InkTec kit. The plugs would not stay in their fill holes. The main reason is that my MX870 has a clearance problem. The printers case would pull the plugs from the holes. So, what to do? I used what was handy. I used electricians tape to cover the fill hole. In one day the tape started to leak. What was happening was that the ink was coming into contact with the tape. The ink was dissolving the tapes adhesvive. What to do?

I decided to use hot glue. The main reason for using the glue is that I could control the thickness of the plugs cap. Because of the clearance problem the cap could not be more than 1/16 thick. Using the hot glue gave me the control I needed to keep the cap at 1/16 thickness. To remove the hot glue I use isopropyl alcohol. I have found that the alcohol did not harm the plastic or degrade the ink.

I will be addressing your concerns and skipping by the following manner:

Your post: per #51

My post: per #49

My reply: .

It begins:

Your post:

The only way to deburr the hole is..

My post:

My post did not address how to drill the fill hole.

My reply: Here is how you drill a hole without burrs.

Tools needed:

. Battery operated drill
. two drill bitsa smaller starter bit and a bit with a diameter just a bit bigger than the needles diameter. The bits should be new (i.e. sharp).
. a third-hand clamp
. a soft tool to remove the shavings if anya wooden toothpick will do fine.

Procedure: Set the drill at lowest speed/lowest torque setting. Using the smaller starter bit drill the starter hole. You can hold the cart in one hand and the drill in the other hand. It would be better to use a third-hand clamp. The clamp will give you better control. If you are careful you will NOT touch the plastic with the tip of the drill. Now use the bigger bit to drill out the fill hole. Be careful not to touch the bottom of the ink reservoir with the drill bitsconscientiousness is called for. After you have drilled the hole you can remove the shavings, burrs (if any), etc. with the toothpick tool.

If you are careful and take your time you will have a nice clean hole and the area around the hole will be unmarked.

There is no need for a Dremel tool or a drill press. Most people do not have a Dremel tool and fewer people have a drill press. Dremel tools have high speeds and would be awkward to use without a third-hand clamp (more control). I know. I have a Dremel tool. A drill press set at a low speed would be good, but how many people have a drill press.

I see no visible chamfer with my procedure. If there is a chamfer it is of no matter.


Your post: Using alcohol will not do a good job. A good cleaner would be either Lacquer thinner or even Acetone. ..

My post:

Caution: If you decide to peel back the tape and refill the cart and place the tape back over the hole, I would pay special attention to the tape in regards to see if the tape was leaking. You may want to remove the tape, clean the residue with alcohol, wait for the alcohol to dry, and place a new piece of tape over the hole.

My statement is a bit awkward. Here is my reversion: If you want to remove the tape entirely and replace with a new piece of tape, please do the following:

. remove the tape with a soft tool
. remove any residue with alcohol
. wait for the alcohol to dry
. place new tape over the hole

My reply:

I believe that using Lacquer thinner/Acetone to remove the tapes residue is overkill if not outright dangerous. The reason I said to use alcohol is because I knew by past experience that alcohol would not harm the plastic and the alcohol would not degrade the ink if it dropped into the ink reservoir. My experience in using alcohol is using alcohol to remove hot glue and not using alcohol to remove tape residue. I took the safe route when I said to use alcohol. I was thinking- no harm, no foul- if the alcohol did not work. So, what to do if the alcohol does not work? I suggest using WD-40. I have had some experience using WD-40 to remove tape residue from various surfaces (but not carts, mind you).

The following is how I would experiment with WD-40:

Place a piece of aluminum tape on a plastic surface similar to what you would find on the top of a cart. Wait for two weeks and remove the tape. If there is residue, place a small amount of WD-40 on the residue and wait five minutes (if not longer). You can apply the WD-40 by using a cotton swab. Be careful not to drown the residue with WD-40. You do not want the WD-40 to drop into the ink reservoirnot good for the ink, the cart, etc. After five minutes (or longer) remove the residue with a tissue or a cotton swab. If the residue is not coming off you may want to wait longer. The WD-40 should remove the residue. If not, try something else. As a last resort I would use Lacquer thinner or Acetone, but be very careful. Please use the chemicals in a well-ventilated area and wear gloves suitable for the chemicals.

Note: I believe the best type of surface for the aluminum tape is one that is dry, unmarked, and NOT tacky. If the surface is tacky I believe that more residue would be left on the surface. A clean, smooth, and dry surface would give you the best adhesion with the least amount of residuein my opinion, mind you.

Your post:

Now I noticed J-1949 says he is using a 5/32 (.156) hole for his filler hole. I think this is way too big

My post:

Note: Most of my fill holes are 5/32 in diameter. The correct size for the fill hole should be just a bit bigger than the diameter of the needle. The smaller the fill hole the less chance of leakage. Also, the OEM ball seal fill opening should be left alone. DO NOT REMOVE the OEM label cover that covers the ball seal. You can assume that ALL ball seals leak. The OEM cover helps with sealing the ball seal. Actually, the cover hides the fact that the ball seal leaksCanon is so sneaky!!!!!!!

My reply:

pearlhouse, did you read my post? I will make this short: we both agree that smaller is better. The 5/32 was for the soft rubber plugs which are no longer being used. I now drill small(er) holes. Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Your post:

Now unless Im missing something here he also says you need to baby sit the cartridge and check the tape for leaks once it is sealed and installed in the print head. ..

My post:

Assuming there is no leakage from the outlet place the cart in the print head. The next step is the most important. You will need to baby sit the cart until it is time to refill the cart. I would check on the aluminum tape at least once per day. If there is no leakage (at least for the period of time between fills) you can assume that the tape will not leak. Nevertheless, I would check the aluminum tape on an ongoing basis.

My reply:

I think we are comparing apples with oranges here. pearlhouse, you use the German method. I use the top fill method. Since I do not use the German method I will have to make some educated guesses. I am guessing that for you, pearlhouse, ink does not touch the tape or whatever you use to cover the fill hole. If the ink does touch the cover material it only does on a sporadic basis.

I use the top fill method. One can assume that the ink touches the plug material on a more or less constant basis. The plug material is never entirely free of the ink. One can say if the printer is not used for a very long time the ink on the plug material will dry-up. If this happens you will most likely have clogging problems. So, use the printer on a regular basis so not to have clogging problems, but have ink on the plug material and have leaking problems (maybe). And the reverse is true. So, pick your poison. I pick using my printer on a regular basis.

I baby sit something when I enter an area where I have little or no experience I error on the side of caution. Even with my hot glue plugs I give each plug the tissue test on a regular basis. For most of the time I see no ink on the tissue. If I do see ink on the tissue it is just a little bit and not worth the trouble to add more glue or create a new plug.

pearlhouse, if you think your fill hole cover is leakproof, good for you. But for me I will check my plugs for leaks. Remember, carts leak or will leak. Plug material leaks or will leak.

Your post:

Another tip I can give you guys is to use a 3 hole paper punch to punch out small circular alum. tape disks which were the ideal size for placing over the fill hole.

My post:

I did not address this in my post.

My reply:

I think this is a good idea. But if I was making the disks I would use a handheld hole punch. It would be easier to retrieve the disks and the disks may not be misshapen.


pearlhouse, I know that I have been giving you a hard time. For what it is worth I see no egregious statements in your post. For the most part you and I have a slight disagreement on how to do things. This is what makes horse racesdifference in opinion(s).

I must say that I see no typos in your post and English seems to be your first language. On this forum this would earn you a gold star!!!!!

Please post again!!!


Thank you.

 

[The Hat]

Trigger 37
The Hat,.. I assume you mean "HOT" wax. So do you just light a candle and drop it onto the hole or just how do you do it. It seems some would get into the chanber. I assume the very small hole is sufficient to pass the standard needle. My problem with small holes is that they tend to fill with a little ink and as you insert more ink it creates an external air bubble of INK and once that is formed the filling process is a mess. Then it is almost impossible to get rid of it and continue the filling.

I have a hot glue gun to apply the wax and the hole is just a bit larger than the needle, I use the SquEasy bottles for my refilling.

I turn the cartridge upside down and place it onto the needle then turn it back right way up with my bottle
now upside down and just gently squeeze in the ink with no mess, release the pressure on the bottle and just remove.

The small filling hole is much easier sealed after refilling and much better at getting the wax off for the next refill.
Just stick the edge of a sharp knife under the wax and it lifts off all in one piece..

 

[joseph1949]

To: Trigger 37
To: The Hat

I believe there is confusion (probably mostly on my part) by what The Hat is calling wax.

The Hat, please answer the following questions:

1. Is your wax hot glue?

2. If it is wax, what kind of wax (i.e., bees wax, candle wax, etc.)?


I also believe there is confusion (again, probably mostly on my part) concerning the OEM Canon orange caps. Just to be clear here if you are a newbie, when you purchase a Canon cart the orange cap is on the ink outlet of the carts. The caps can also be found on third party carts such as Caboodle carts (OEM Canon carts with Caboodle ink).

I believe the confusion is in the fact that there are two types of OEM Canon orange caps. There is the old style orange cap. They are twisted off and they are reattached by pressing (snap-on) on the cap. And then there is the new style cap. The carts with the new style caps will have a gray wrapper. The wrapper covers the air vent and holds the orange cap tight against the ink outlet.

The new style caps cannot be snap-on to the outlet like the old style caps. I have used the new style caps. They are a pain to use and not have leakage. You need to add material to the cap to get a snug fit around the outlet. You can use Cling-Wrap, Handi-Wrap, heavy-duty aluminum foil, regular aluminum foil, etc. to get a snug fit. (Note: aluminum foil should do no harm to the ink or ink outlet for refilling. If the foil is used for long term storage then that may be a different story.) One layer of a material may work. You may need to use multiple layers for a different material. It is all done by trial-and-error. Again, Canon is being damn sneaky!!!!!!!

Even though you have a snug fit you will still need to wrap rubber bands around the cap and the cart to insure a tight fit. Now, rubber bands may not be the best way to insure a tight fit. The rubber bands work good for the old style caps. The rubber bands do not exert pressure on the cap in the same manner as the wrapper. I have not tried tape or a c-clamp, but both should apply pressure in the same manner as the wrapper. You need to tightly wound the electricians tape around the orange cap and cart. Do not wrap the tape on either side (like the rubber bands) of the cap head. The tape should be placed directly over the cap head. The c-clamp should be just big enough to fit over the cart. If you use a larger clamp you may apply too much pressure and you will have created an ink bomb. So, you should apply just enough pressure on the clamp to insure a tight fit. For sake of convenience and a better way (in my opinion) to apply pressure in the manner of the wrapper I would use the c-clamp.

If you have a choice, buy the cart(s) without the wrapperbig time!!!!!!!

Tomorrow I will be providing pictures of an OEM Canon cart with the wrapper. I will also be showing a picture of the old style cap and the new style cap together.

Thank you.

 

[Trigger 37]

The hat,.... I 'm beginning to see the advantages of your "Hot Wax". If I understand correctly, you use the Heat from the tip of a "Glue Gun" to warm "Wax" over the hole and melt just a sufficient amount. You let it cool to the point where you can use your finger to press it into a flat shape and seal the hole. I assume the object is to get enough WAX in the hole to seal it air tight. In this way it will be much easier to remove. As with my "Putty" test, if you press on it too quick or too much you will press more WAX into the hole than you need and this will make it hard to remove. Can you confirm my assumptions.

joseph,....I have tried hot glue before so I know it takes some practice and good experience. Unfortunatley I had nothing with bad experience. I let it cool just a little,..which was not enough,..and then pressed it flat. I got glue all over me and the ink cart. After it cooled I couldn't get it off. You indicate that ISO alcohol with remove it but could you describe in some detail your applicate and the timing and how the alcohol helps to get the glue out of the hole. I am getting the picture that no one uses the standard fill hole by removing the ball,..as this hole is just too large and difficult to fill.

Finally,... today I used one of the top features of my MX860 and that was to auto duplex copy of multiple documents. My wife gave me 4 music dual side sheets and said she needed 6 copies for her chorus. The printer has a built in button "Two Sided" to setup duplex copying and it could not be simplier. I made the copies using the auto document feeder and it used a little less than 1/8th of the total large black ink cart. I guess I can't complain about that since I know I'm going to refill,.. it is just that I am going to have to refill a lot more often than before. That is why I'm trying to get the best reill process,..and to me that is the one that is the quickest, the easist, and the safest.

 

[The Hat]

joseph1949
1. Is your wax hot glue?

2. If it is wax, what kind of wax (i.e., bees wax, candle wax, etc.)?
You need to add material to the cap to get a snug fit around the outlet.
You can use Cling-Wrap, Handi-Wrap, heavy-duty aluminum foil, regular aluminum foil, etc. to get a snug fit.

Its a hot glue gun which uses 20 cm long glue sticks for bonding,
sealing and joining which sticks to most surfaces including glass. (Code phpz 32 a1)

Now I have tried using various adhesive tapes to hold on the orange clip with great success.
But I found while try to remove the tape and clip I had to hold the cartridge very tightly
causing it to leak ink all over the place so I discontinue using that method. (Plastic/rubber bands work much better)

I also used a knife to cut around the inside of the clip to remove the little nicks for a better fit.

Trigger 37-

The hat,.... I 'm beginning to see the advantages of your "Hot Wax".
If I understand correctly, you use the Heat from the tip of a "Glue Gun" to warm "Wax" over the hole and melt just a sufficient amount.
You let it cool to the point where you can use your finger to press it into a flat shape and seal the hole.
I assume the object is to get enough WAX in the hole to seal it air tight.

I just use a dribble of glue to cover the hole and smooth it out if necessary with the edge of a knife while still very hot then blow on it gently to cool it,
It sticks to the top surface rather than going into the smaller hole which makes it easy to remove later.

I use the term wax loosely rather than calling it glue because when the glue dries hard is looks like wax and can be removed
just like wax so long as theres enough of it there to get the knife under the edge to pry it off in one piece.

Its the only method I found for sealing the hole that is consistently reliable and if the seal should leak
it is very evident when you remove the orange clip to spot it and correct it
before installing it in the printer, it happens very very rarely due to stupid carelessness on my part..

 

[joseph1949]

To: Trigger 37
To: The Hat

Thank you for your replies.

Trigger 37, based on The Hats post, The Hat uses hot glue and not wax.

Let us be clear here, Trigger 37, you need to be using a real hot glue gun and real hot glue sticks when you are applying hot glue to a cart. Please do not use a homemade contraption to apply glue to a cart. It is difficult enough for a newbie to use a real hot glue gun/hot glue sticks. Using a homemade device just makes the learning process much more difficult if not impossible.

Trigger 37, you can see by reading The Hats post #65 that using hot glue is a learning process not without its problems. It takes time to learn to use hot glue successfully. Do not feel like the Lone Ranger because you are having problems with hot glue. I and The Hat both had to overcome problems in using hot glue. It is a learning process that takes time and patience. Once you learn the process you will see that hot glue plugs are the way to go. In the long run hot glue plugs will give you the fewer number of problemsjust getting there is the problem. Like the The Hat said hot glue plugs for sealing are consistently reliable.

Trigger 37, to help you with learning how to use hot glue I will be taking close-up pictures of how I use hot glue. I will take out a cart and remove/apply hot glue to the cart. Taking sharp close-ups of this process can be difficult. It is hard to know if you have successfully taking a sharp close-up without downloading the picture into the computer and then bring-up the picture on the monitor. All this is time consuming. Using the cameras lcd screen does not always tell you if the image is sharp (enough).

What I am trying to tell you Trigger 37 is that I will try to get the pictures taken in one day and posted, but do not count on it. It may take two or three days.

Thank you.

 

[Trigger 37]

The Hat,..& to Joesph,.... I figured it out myself today when I tried my hot glue gun and a wax candle. It became very obvious that he was really just using the hot glue gun with standard glue stick. After a couple of attempts I think I have it down pretty good. the key is not using a "Large Hole" such as the removal of the original fill ball. That size of hole is just too large and make it difficult to get the glue out. I use a 3/32" drill and that provide plenty of room for the needle and also makes it easy to reill and to glue. I have 3 different carts resting upside down on a paper towel testing them for a leak. I doubt if there will ever be a leak since the glue does such a great job. The next task will be to see just how easy it is to remove the glue. the nice thing about glue is that all of it in contact stays together and does not brake apart, as with putty which seems to tear and brake into pieces,..whereas glue tends to stay in one piece unless you realy stress it too much. I have also used his process for glattening the glue down in place. You can't use you fingers as this makes a mess, but the metal blade of a knife works great. Once I still used too much glue but once it cooled I use a razor blade knife to cut the excess glue off of the top,...eaving a nice flat pad of glue. In a couple of weeks I will see just how difficult it is to remove the glue plugs. One other point I should make is that to simplify the refilling I have purchased a bunch of ink cart holders from Octoinkjet to hold each ink cart while I do the drilling and the refilling and the glueing. It holds the ink cart still and stable all the time and really makes the filling and glueing much simplier. Thanks Websnail.

Again,,.. I want to thank all of you for helping me solve this problem.

 

[pearlhouse]

I apologize to all you other refillers for having to read such a long desertation but I need to set the record straight here because I feel I know what I am talking about.
To J1949:
I must say I am surprised by your comments made about my suggestions and additions to your Post #49. You are correct in saying that we both have our own opinions on this subject. I am always open to constructive criticism when in the end it makes sense to me.

First off I did read your complete post over several times. I will admit, I did not read any of your previous posts where you may have discussed your top filling methods.

I would suggest you re-read my Post #51 which might answer some of your own questions about my comments of Post #49.

In my Post #51 - I failed to explain that I had experimented with the top fill method quite extensively after reading at this site on how to refill these cartridges. Because of not being able to seal the top fill hole with any kind of reliability, I switched to using the German method where sealing the side fill hole is not required. I have an MX860 which also has the clearance problem you have mentioned. I had tried the hot glue method as you have described flattening out the plug after it starts to cool, I used stainless steel set screws, and even applied a thread sealing compound known as loctite to the screw threads. I have also tried using silicone caulk which bonds very well to plastic especially the marine grades. With all these methods none were 100% reliable. A cartridge leaking out of the bottom supply port is a real messy situation to say the least. So again I say the German method I believe is a much better method.

Instead of suggesting to Newbies that there are errors in my procedures & my comments it would have been better to suggest that they draw their own conclusions after reading both sides.

No where in Post #49 do you mention why you drilled the original 5/32 holes in your larger holes because you were using plugs that came with some sort of a refill kit you purchased. Re reading your statement it now sounds to me like you agree the hole should be much smaller. So I only tried to state the exact dimensions involved in making the top fill hole.

When I made the below statement I was referring to the TOP fill hole (5/32) that you are using for the top fill method.

(I believe the aluminum tape is a very good alternative for sealing the fill hole only if the hole is cleaned properly, has no burrs around the edges and the surrounding surface is clean with no marks or scratches. That said, I believe it will be almost impossible to meet these specs.)
Before I go further into your reply please let me explain my credentials, qualifications and vast engineering experience. I have now been retired for 15 years and taken up repairing and building computers and other devices as a hobby. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and also an associate degree in chemistry. I worked as a manufacturing engineer for a very large company for over 30 years. At this company I supervised a large machine shop where we worked with metals, plastics and rubber day in and day out.

In your description of your history of refilling you mentioned using electrical tape and that the adhesive was being dissolved by the ink in the cartridge. I dont understand how the ink can get on the tape which is covering the top hole. Unless you have overfilled the cartridge to the point where the ink is within thousands of an inch from overflowing, I cannot understand what would cause the ink to touch the adhesive side of the tape. The cartridges remain in their upright position and the only movement involved is the left and right moves of the print head.

Your statement (One can assume that the ink touches the plug material on a more or less constant basis. The plug material is never entirely free of the ink. One can say if the printer is not used for a very long time the ink on the plug material will dry-up. If this happens you will most likely have clogging problems.) I believe this is false! There should be no ink touching the plug material unless you are turning the printer upside down for some reason. The mention of clogging if this should happen will only help in sealing the hole so it does not leak. The idea that the ink was dissolving the adhesive on the tape is also false. There is nothing in the makeup of the ink that would act on the adhesive of the tape. You probably just didnt have the hole prepared right from the beginning for getting a good seal. As I mentioned it is almost impossible to prepare a hole for 100% certainty that it will not leak.

Using alcohol to clean the surface of the cartridge is a good device for cleansing the surface of things like oil from your hands, any ink that has been smeared from filling etc., but it is not the best for removing residue such as remnants of adhesive glue, hot glue, or remnants of OEM labels. Using WD-40 for cleaning the surface is ridiculous. WD 40 has oil in it. Adding oil to this situation doesnt make good sense. True there is a solvent in it that could help dissolve adhesive but at the cost of leaving an oil residue behind does not make sense. To my knowledge there is no tape that will adhere to an oily surface better than a clean non contaminated surface. Lacquer thinner, acetone, and even finger nail polish remover which is almost the same as acetone, are much better choices for cleaning the surface of ALL substances. We are not talking about using large quantities of this stuff to clean properly. A few drops are all that is needed. None of these in small amounts will provide any type of a safety hazard. Finger nail polish remover is available in millions of homes right now in the USA. A drop of any of these except the WD-40 into the ink chamber, I doubt will have little effect on the quality of the ink. A drop of WD-40 in the ink chamber could cause printing problems that we dont want to get into today. If the sealing surface becomes tacky from these agents there will be even a better seal when the two adhesives come in contact with each other. This is how contact glue works.

By your statements about drilling and burring the fill hole I would be willing to bet you probably never had a course in machine shop. One of the first things you should know about drilling is the smaller the drill, the higher the rpm should be. The higher speed helps clear away the debris and leaves a much cleaner hole. Drilling a hole of this size does not require 2 drills. If you were looking for accuracy as to the location of the hole then yes drilling with multiple drills would make sense. I happen to own several dremel tools as well as a drill press and only suggested these because I have them. Just a good hi-rpm drill will also work quite well. After drilling the hole there will always be a burr left around the edge of the hole. Using a wooden tooth pick is not a good device. These burrs are still attached to the edge of the hole and picking them with a wooden stick is not the answer and also you could possibly break off a piece of it which could fall into the ink chamber. One of the right ways to remove a burr is by using a chamfer tool designed for this purpose. A good stand in to use is a drill that is several sizes larger than the hole size. The taper on the point of the drill is all that is needed to remove these burrs and leave a smooth edge. The cartridge can either be clamped to a table top surface or just held down on the surface while the chamfer tool is applied. Just a quick touch of the point is all that is required. If the rpm is high enough it will immediately clear away the burr leaving a smooth chamfer at the edge of the hole. What you dont want to do is drill all the way through opening up the hole into a much larger hole.

Punching out the aluminum tape discs can be a chore one at a time. If you take the time to first clean out your hole punch scrap tray and start out clean, you can punch 3 discs at a time. When you are done just open up the tray and empty it into a zip lock bag for easy storage.

Finally your remarks about testing your seals with a tissue intrigue me. If you are seeing a trace of color ink on the tissue this means you dont have a good seal although once again I say there should not be any ink coming upward to the top of the cartridge. If you dont have a good perfect seal than air is coming into the chamber from the top and allowing ink to slowly seep from the bottom supply port. THIS IS WHY YOU ARE TRYING TO SEAL THE HOLE SO YOU DONT GET A LEAK AND MESS AT THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE CARTRIDGE.!!!

Thank You and please continue posting on this great site for all us refillers.

 

[joseph1949]

To: Trigger 37
To: The Hat

In creating the close-up pictures I found a way to press down the glue without using my finger. When I deposited the glue over the fill hole I used a penny to press down the glue. I waited no more than two minutes before removing the penny. What I saw was a near perfect flatten circle of glue. The thickness was about right (I had to grab my camera and take a picture which let the glue cool down). If the glue had been hot the glue circle would have been perfect and the thickness less than 1/32. I know this because to show the thickness of my glue plug I glued a penny next to the glue plug. When I removed the penny I found that the penny was easy to remove and the glue was a perfectly round circle with the thickness equivalent to a sheet of paper.

The secret(s) in using the penny is heat transfer and the fact that glue does not stick to metal very well. The heat from the glue goes to the penny. This makes it possible to remove the coin after a minute or two. Because hot glue does not stick to metal very well it takes little effort to lift the coin from the glue. Also, a side benefit of the little effort is that you will not disturb the glue and thus you will maintain the sealgood thing!!!

Note: The Hat and Trigger, your use of the knife may accomplish the same thing.

The following are some things to think about when you use the penny and using hot glue as a plug:

1. The Hat has an advantage over the two us, Trigger. If you go to post #35, thread top fill clearance, you will see that The Hat shows a picture of how he made a cut in his case so as to allow clearance for his carts. If you look carefully you will see two glue plugs. The plugs are nice thick plugs. Trigger, our plugs cannot look like this. Our plugs must by necessity be only 1/16 thick so as to clear the case. Our plugs are more difficult to apply for a number of reasons (see below).

2. The Hat has another advantage over us. He only needs to dribble a small amount of glue over the fill hole and smooth the dribble with a knife. The Hat only needs to use a very small amount of pressure to spread the glue over the hole. The small amount of pressure helps to keep glue out of the fill holegood thing.

3. Trigger, you and I have to apply more pressure to the glue so as to keep the glue cap at a thickness to clear the case. The problem with applying more pressure is that you are forcing glue into the fill holenot good!!!!!!

4. More pressure is not all bad. More pressure will give you a better seal. Using the penny will give you better control over the glue. I believe by using the penny we will not have to apply as much pressure to the glue to create a cap that will clear the case. Using your finger is difficult for a number of reasons. With the penny you do not have to guess when is the right time to use your finger to press down the glue. The penny will disturb the glue less and you will need to apply less pressure (the difference is hard to qualify) to the penny. Hopefully by using the penny you will not force glue into the fill hole or if glue goes into the hole the glue will not go into the hole as far and thus be easier to remove.

5. Trigger, you will find that a small fill hole is easier to seal, but removing the glue may be more difficult as compared to a larger hole. The fill hole should not be larger than 5/32 and not smaller than 3/32. I have found that successfully removing glue from a hole has more to do with your technique than with the size of the hole. If you are lucky when you remove the glue cap you will have removed the glue in the hole at the same time. Adding alcohol to the cap, lifting gently with a soft tool, and taking your time you can with luck be able to lift the cap with the holes glue nipple attached. The trick is letting the alcohol reach the hole and allowing time for the glue to be softened by the alcohol. After the alcohol has softened the glue you can use a small screwdriver to remove the glue. Trigger, you may find that a larger hole will make it easier to remove the glue from the hole. Practice on different size holes to see what works be for you.

6. So, let us review:

Less pressure.less glue in hole.but the seal is not as good.
More pressure.more glue in hole..but the seal is better.
Smaller hole.easier to seal.but may be harder to remove glue.
Larger hole.harder to seal.but may be easier to remove glue.

7. I believe that there is a way to keep glue out of the hole and still have a good seal. I think if you place a small piece of material over the hole and then cover the material with glue you will keep glue out of the hole no matter how much pressure (within reason) you use to flatten the glue. I will have to experiment with the material, the technique to place the material over the hole, and applying the glue over the material. The important thing here is to have a good seal when you are done.

8. Every time you do something to the cart/fill hole plug be sure to turn the cart upside down to check if the plug is still sealing. You said that you had to cut the glue plug down to clear the case. I would turn the cart upside down after you created the plug and again after you cut the plug. No reason to cut the plug if it is leakingsaves time and aggravation. Remember: plugs leak or will leak.

9. Trigger, experiment and take your time. HOT GLUE RULES!!!!!!!!!


Thank you.

 

[The Hat]

I hate to spoil your party guys but the glue I use gets very hot and if I stuck a penny on top of the glue for a few second
it would not come off again without taking most of the glue with it, I have being using hot glue for more than 5 years.

Thats way I use a pen knife to spread the glue then remove the blade quickly
this stops the blade getting stuck as well (you dont get your fingers burned either).

If youre unsure about any seal and want to check if its airtight, remove the orange clip from the bottom of the cartridge
and let it stand for a few minutes, it shouldnt leak more than a few drops
and then stop even if you leave the cartridge without the clip overnight..