Thinking of switching to epson inkjet

[ZenMasta]

I think it might be time for me to switch from HP to epson. Lately I can't fix the printers faster than they break and right now I'm down 5 out of 6 printers.

Here's what I need
4 color separate cartridges (and print heads)
duplexer
network card
20000 pages per month rating or higher

We print color brochures and I don't know what saturation but lets just say I have some color high lights over black text and then 3 columns across of book images and 3 rows down (or sometimes 4 rows down) . So about 9 -12 color book images per page with black text descriptions and other solid color elements on the page.

But, before I do this I need some info from some of you epson users. What is your experience with epson and CIS.

I think the main problem with the HP's is that it simply does not like 3rd party chips. If you can get a long refilling OEM carts that will give you the best longevity. However with our volume of printing it is just too labor intensive (and messy) to refill 50 cartridges a week or so.

I have heard that epson is not as picky with 3rd party chips and if that is the case then I am definitely willing to purchase one to test out. What are your comments on this claim.

Here are some questions I have.
How is Epsons warranty? With HP they have an incredible warranty where you can call and they will exchange the printer within 2 days at no cost.

What about print heads? I would assume epson uses separate print heads but how long do they last and what's the cost? I USUALLY get 2 or 3 times the rated usage out of our hp print heads. ie rated at 200ml and we usualy get 400-700 (or black print heads rated at 400 we usually get about 800-1000 ml)

The epson B-500DN looks comparable to some of the HP's we've been using (2300, 2800, 3000) but I haven't noticed any one that has a CIS for it. Most of the epson cis I have found were for what seem to me as light duty/home use, or photo printers.

I definitely don't want a 6-8 color photo printer.

 

[websnail]

Here's what I need
4 color separate cartridges (and print heads)

You're immediately pushing Epson out of the frame because the printhead is fixed in the printer and requires a tech to change it... Not cheap either. However because the heads use the Piezo Electric effect to eject ink they don't burn out... So I'd question whether you really "need" a seperate printhead.

duplexer
network card
20000 pages per month rating or higher

We print color brochures and I don't know what saturation but lets just say I have some color high lights over black text and then 3 columns across of book images and 3 rows down (or sometimes 4 rows down) . So about 9 -12 color book images per page with black text descriptions and other solid color elements on the page.

Does the ink need to be water insoluble? ie: if they get damp is it a problem if the ink runs?

I think the main problem with the HP's is that it simply does not like 3rd party chips. If you can get a long refilling OEM carts that will give you the best longevity. However with our volume of printing it is just too labor intensive (and messy) to refill 50 cartridges a week or so.

Can I ask which printers you are currently using and more importantly, what size paper are you using?

I have heard that epson is not as picky with 3rd party chips and if that is the case then I am definitely willing to purchase one to test out. What are your comments on this claim.

Epson have been spending some serious development time on making it much harder to use a CIS and an ARC chip as a result... Cue the R285 and similar printers where you need to either remove and reseat the cartridge OR press a button (on some ARC sets) to get the counter to reset. This is likely to get even more protracted in the chip war so no, it's definitely not "forgiving" anymore.

Here are some questions I have.
How is Epsons warranty? With HP they have an incredible warranty where you can call and they will exchange the printer within 2 days at no cost.

Can't really comment but I do know that if one breaks you will get a refurb if you're in warranty... They're likely to quibble if this happens a lot though.

What about print heads? I would assume epson uses separate print heads but how long do they last and what's the cost? I USUALLY get 2 or 3 times the rated usage out of our hp print heads. ie rated at 200ml and we usualy get 400-700 (or black print heads rated at 400 we usually get about 800-1000 ml)

As noted above, they are no separate... As a general rule though my Officejet printers have a shorter life span compared to my Epson printers... I have a C84 in school that's pretty much still going apart from needing replacement wiper and parking pad sponges. I have no idea how much use it's had but certainly headed for a litre of black ink or more.

The epson B-500DN looks comparable to some of the HP's we've been using (2300, 2800, 3000) but I haven't noticed any one that has a CIS for it. Most of the epson cis I have found were for what seem to me as light duty/home use, or photo printers.

Ah... just spotted which printers you've been using... To my knowledge there are no CIS kits for those models and I haven't heard of any refillable cartridges which in fairness I'd be more inclined to expect. The XL capacity cartridges is around 200ml for the black and I think 120ml for the colours?? on the B-500DN means you're not changing your cartridges every 15 minutes.. Refillink haven't mentioned anything to me about a resetter though as there's enough pressure on re: The Epson 2880 and that's worth more to a bulk ink supplier.

Someone must be working on it though... Oh one thing to add, the B-500DN (and the B300) have a consumable waste tank which is chip protected.. Costs around 18 to get a replacement but it does mean you're not messing with resets and the printer is therefore more in for the long haul.


Hope that gives you some ideas and a bit more info' anyways...

 

[ZenMasta]

I read your article on the B-500DN (i forget what I was searching for specifically but that's how I found it on google). I thought the ink waste tank was a great idea until you just mentioned it is chip based and they have turned it into a consumable. I thought the pad thing got gross but in all my years using those kinds of printers it has never overflowed or caused any problems.

When I said separate print head I just mean not built-in the cartridge (as with the HP's we use now we replace a full set about once a month or so per printer). How often will I have to replace it on epson printers?

The printers I've been using are in my sig. The most reliable has been the 2280 but the best feeding is the 2280 because the lower tray is built like a laserjet and it raises the entire paper tray with a pully system instead of just trying to push one end up at an angle and hope it catches a roller.

We aren't concerned about it being water insoluable (i'm sure that would actually cost more anyways)

The 200ml black and 120 color is actually quite a nice idea, but I wonder if I could refill them indefinitely (until the chip expires) like I've been able to do with my HP's. Is the cartridge design similar for refilling sake? The only epson cartridges that I've seen (recently and way back) were the plastic transparent cartridges that have a sponge inside of them.

So my revised requirements are
4 color separate cartridges (print heads not attached to cartridges)
duplexer
network card
20000 pages per month rating or higher


I wish I knew one of the geniuses behind xbox and ps3 modding so they could mod my printers to not give a rats about chips.

 

[websnail]

I read your article on the B-500DN (i forget what I was searching for specifically but that's how I found it on google). I thought the ink waste tank was a great idea until you just mentioned it is chip based and they have turned it into a consumable. I thought the pad thing got gross but in all my years using those kinds of printers it has never overflowed or caused any problems.

Well, it's a bitter sweet thing... By putting a chip in there they don't have to worry about resetters, and neither do you. When you consider that adjustment utils are now a saleable item with one individual selling them at $80+ a pop complete with activation and coding to specific machines. What I think of the individual concerned is something not for polite company.

When I said separate print head I just mean not built-in the cartridge (as with the HP's we use now we replace a full set about once a month or so per printer). How often will I have to replace it on epson printers?

Ah... well in that case Epsons do qualify as seperate.. as for replacement, you shouldn't need to do that at all... There are people still using their C84, and R300's or even the Stylus 740's so you should get a few years out of them albeit requiring some TLC to deal with clogs nozzles.

The printers I've been using are in my sig. The most reliable has been the 2280 but the best feeding is the 2280 because the lower tray is built like a laserjet and it raises the entire paper tray with a pully system instead of just trying to push one end up at an angle and hope it catches a roller.

The newer paper handling for HP has been appalling... No idea how Epson are doing it with the B300/B500DN but hopefully they haven't licensed HP's approaches... that would be criminal!

We aren't concerned about it being water insoluable (i'm sure that would actually cost more anyways)

It does... In bulk ink terms I pay 3 times more for pigment Epson inks than I do for the dyebase types... It does open up your opportunities though and you could perhaps look at the K5400 but with a dyebase black and a bulk system. I have almost perfected my own version but more appropriately there's a guide on how to DIY a kit on the continuousink.info forum.. It says for HP10/11 but the HP88 is the same cart with a different label so it applies.

The 200ml black and 120 color is actually quite a nice idea, but I wonder if I could refill them indefinitely (until the chip expires) like I've been able to do with my HP's. Is the cartridge design similar for refilling sake? The only epson cartridges that I've seen (recently and way back) were the plastic transparent cartridges that have a sponge inside of them.

I very much doubt it... Epson will have learned from their experience and that of their competitors.. I wouldn't be surprised if the cartridges are non-refillable with designs specifically countering the approach. I

Having looked again at the potential market for CIS's, etc... about the only good news is that there's some possible ARC's for the B500DN but no cartridges for refilling or CIS's. To that end it does look like you've be completely stuck with Epson OEM cartridges... Good if you're ok with that level of cost but not so great otherwise.

If the cartridges ARE refillable though it does appear there are resetters available provided you remember to do the reset before the cartridge drops below 15% full. I haven't found an actual sales point for customers, just that wholesaler link so no idea if they work or not.

So my revised requirements are
4 color separate cartridges (print heads not attached to cartridges)
duplexer
network card
20000 pages per month rating or higher

My suggestion at this point would be to grab a K5400DTN while you still can (assuming you still can) and get that setup with a CIS.. See if that works well for you... and if not head for the Epsons instead..

I wish I knew one of the geniuses behind xbox and ps3 modding so they could mod my printers to not give a rats about chips.

You're not alone, I wish I was lot more skilled in so many things... Hope that lot above helped.

 

[websnail]

Just a quick update... I went back and reviewed the info on the B500DN and I'd recommend you check out a few reviews too... It's looking less and less attractive with each one.

I think overall... If you want to get yourself going again, look at the K5400 or think about getting some refurb'd 2280's and stay with what you know.

Someone else any suggestions?

 

[ZenMasta]

So if I had to guess, there doesn't seem to be many people that use inkjet printers in the same volume as I do that refill on these boards. I guess I am going to have to try harder to see if I can get some of those refillable cartridges but just figure out a way to replace the arcs with OEM chips.

If I could find a set of carts like these for the K5400 I might be in luck.
http://www.macroenter.com/AI_RCK_HP_K550_Refill_Cartridge_p/ia-hp-k550.htm

edit - both the K550 or the K5400 are rated at 7500 pages per month. that wont work for me. plus the k550 is already discontinued. Seems like they discontinue models a lot faster.

 

[DavidRJason]

As someone who was in computer hardware for 20+ years, I have been recommending and using Epson inkjets simply because of their warranty. It doesnt happen often (but it might if you do a heavy volume) but if your printer goes down, it's nice to make a phone call and have another printer delivered a day later. It's also nice that they pick up the defective one at their expense. I don't believe any printer company is more "forgiving" of the chips than any other. I have seen plenty of complaints from people who bought CIS and compatible cartridges for Epsons and the printer wouldnt recognize them. I get cartridges for my Epson for under $3 which hold 66% more ink than the OEM product. There is a separate ink tank inside. When it's empty, I pop out the tank and pop in a new one. The chips automatically reset to full. I've been using them for years and there are models for just about every Epson printer. To me this is more convenient than CIS, less messy than a refill. I would name the site I get them from but I think that may be against the rules here, so if you're interested you can email me davidrjason@yahoo.com

 

[panos]

It's difficult to combine a duplexer and a requirement for 20k pages per month on an inkjet. No matter what the duplexing mechanism, the ink will always require time to dry which means that auto duplex will always be slow. I do produce relatively high volumes of two-sided color business documents (4 colors) on my Canon printers, but I use manual duplex (using 3rd party software to avoid Canon's black ink dilution on duplex).

You should really consider a laser for high volume auto duplexing.

 

[websnail]

Just as a FYI: I have a slew of ARC's for the K5400 (HP88) and with the K5400, etc.. discontinued they're going to be going down in price to clear.

But to note in terms of the "duty cycle" they should be able to handle more than the 7,500... I have schools punishing some with much more... but yes the fact that they've been discontinued does cause a slight issue

 

[websnail]

If I could find a set of carts like these for the K5400 I might be in luck.
http://www.macroenter.com/AI_RCK_HP_K550_Refill_Cartridge_p/ia-hp-k550.htm

Noo!, Just NO!.. They are awful, leak badly and have been constructed in a way that completely removes part of the pumping mechanism.

This is a MUCH better approach using OEM cartridges and whilst I'm not sure the tanks suggested in that thread are necessary the whole design process is very well laid out.