That dreaded Head failure again… WHY !

[The Hat]

I never got the Resetter for the PGI-9 carts.

Joe have you not tried your Pro 100 resetter on the CLI-8 chips, it might work !

I don't think that we can exclusively blame overheating as root cause of print head electrical failure. Something is failing in the print head, though...

Exactly and maybe we’ll never find out but in the mean time your idea of the Quiet Mode is something we could all adopt, it can’t harm the print head that’s for sure.

Ok so what that says to me is that not enough research has gone into the materials of construction,

If someone tried to do research into the thermal print head design then they would certainly be hit with some kind of a law suit for their troubles.

Is heater cracking the primary cause of failure?

I reckon it’s more to do with the circuitry been to densely packed together and getting a power surge from the one beside it which then burns out that set of nozzles, that’s just one of my many guesses..

 

[ghwellsjr]

That is interesting, I was wondering what the ratio of head failure between Canon and Epson is, there seems little in the way comment about the comparison of actual failure rates.

I don't know but a head failure on an Epson printer is a printer failure since you can't replace the print head. However, since there's no excessive heat in an Epson print head due to boiling ink like there is in the Canon print head, that failure mechanism is non-existent. I think the major cause of failure in Epson printers is lack of use leading to dried ink on the bottom of the print head causing clogged nozzles. It's challenging to clean these since the print head cannot be removed but it can be done. Best to keep your printer in use to avoid the problem.

 

[3dogs]

That is interesting, I was wondering what the ratio of head failure between Canon and Epson is, there seems little in the way comment about the comparison of actual failure rates.

Not so sure that has a lot to do with it, please let me clarify Quickly!!

Reading the articles available on the technology used by Canon, sends me back a few years to when I was sourcing components for a reactor to be built to better than Nuclear Code. THE most critical component in the entire process was the availability of water with no more than 3ppm chloride Ions...BECAUSE this vessel was operating in Sigma Phase over 1600 celcius.....

Now the reason this was important was that at that temperature the materials of construction were prone to developing micro cracks and chloride ions apparently survive and do what chlorides do best, resulting in theoretical catastrophic failure.....phew!

What has this to do with a print head......well given that, and the finding that cracking did occur and MAY have caused a flow on effect at the end of which symptoms not unlike clogs happen..
it may or may not be a long bow to draw to connect the dots.
If components in the inks, or flushing water DO cause this event then it becomes a WHEN, not an IF anymore.

I'm no scientist, but i spent enough time forssicking to satisfy their whims that it came front of mind when I read the article.

Could also be so far off that it is a red herring

 

[The Hat]

Reading the articles available on the technology used by Canon, sends me back a few years to when I was sourcing components for a reactor to be built to better than Nuclear Code. THE most critical component in the entire process was the availability of water with no more than 3ppm chloride Ions...BECAUSE this vessel was operating in Sigma Phase over 1600 celcius.....

I was thinking of putting together a small nuclear power generator here early next year I wonder would you be interested in joining me in my big adventure.

Your trip wouldn’t be wasted because we do have lots of printers that need a good mechanic to keep them running, O’ and nice clean water, lots of the bloody stuff..

 

[Emulator]

Out of curiosity I have taken a look at the Epson Pro 3880 A2 printer adverts in Amazon UK and the feedback comments of buyers. I see the lowest price is around £750. The cost of Epson ink about £400 for the 9 carts of 80mL ink. Generally positive comments and sounds an excellent printer, but you clearly need to be in business to justify having one. Any comments about the cost of alternative ink?

Ominously more than one comment about the prohibitive cost of Epson servicing and replacement parts, to the effect that it is cheaper to buy a new printer if anything fails. Would you make more return on capital from a nuclear plant?

 

[The Hat]

Out of curiosity I have taken a look at the Epson Pro 3880 A2 printer adverts in Amazon UK and the feedback comments of buyers. I see the lowest price is around £750. The cost of Epson ink about £400 for the 9 carts of 80mL ink. Generally positive comments and sounds an excellent printer, but you clearly need to be in business to justify having one. Any comments about the cost of alternative ink?

Ominously more than one comment about the prohibitive cost of Epson servicing and replacement parts, to the effect that it is cheaper to buy a new printer if anything fails. Would you make more return on capital from a nuclear plant?

I have also paid heavily for some of my Pro Canon printers, one of them was even more than £750 and you don’t get anywhere near the level of ink in them.

One of the reasons I’ll be dumping my Pro 1 is because I’m not going to be fleeced by Canon service again just to reset the stupid ink counter.

I don’t know about the cost effeteness of a nuclear plant but one thing is for sure the longevity of its ink is far greater that anything that you can get from Canon…

 

[3dogs]

Via this site I got onto Cone Inks and made a huge saving on ink cost.
My 3880 cost A$1600, related to a weekly wage here that would be in the order of two weeks pay (average earnings).
Three years ago I purchased 1lit each of Cones inks. that cost me A$ 1100, landed here.
A fresh set of OEM's cost A$900, I have refilled three times and have made little impression on the supply of Cone ink. Each refill is about 75ml, and I have a 1000ml of each colour.

So in simple terms the OEM route 3 X A$900 = A$2,700

Repairs, I have non, .............yet

Paper, I use Xerox up to A2 and that does all the 'what IF printing' @ A$40 per 200 sheets average

Fine Art is now done on Canson Watercolour A$50 / 15-20 sheets.

I also use Canson photo papers for special jobs.

Most by volume is printing for myself, that may change , but I would be factoring that in when and IF it ever occurs. I have choices , as I can print up to A2, I'm not limited to A4 as I was in the past.

As to Canon vs Epson I have both, and intend to keep it that way, as i have no clear picture of the lifespan of the printhead on the 9000.


Cheers

 

[mikling]

For the low use user, Canon designs despite some of the shortcomings will actually be more friendly.

Now don't think that an Epson printhead does not wear out. That is not true at all.
Piezo printheads can suffer delamination where it begins leaking ink between channels. I have been through 5 Epson printers that suffered this fate. Early Claria printers were subject to this and eventually every single TX580 eventually suffered this.

Some get nozzles that eventually fire weakly, where the nozzle pattern is OK but repeated use of the nozzle shows some microbanding and weak droplets.

I have also had logic boards or printheads cease firing, thus leading to believing that a clog existed. So we also have electronic failures that users think is a mechanical clog.The problem is it cannot be easily diagnosed....many just let it go as a clog.

Epson printers in general also do not have the paper handling capability that Canon has. This is possibly due to the extended experience Canon has had in copiers. In general, I have found Canon printers handle paper more reliably than Epson.

So the grass is not always greener on the other side. I have one foot on each side.

 

[Lucas28]

The Epson paper trays are a bit flimsy, not the Canon ones. Of course that only goes for the low cost home printers, the Epson Pro printers are of top quality.

Another disadvantage of the Epson is the ink use, much ink get lost by automatic head cleaning. The problem is not a big issue for us refillers, but I just mention it.

But the Epson print head is much better than the Canon one. I haven't seen an Epson clogging problem that couldn't be solved.
Maybe the Epson print head doesn't live for ever, but it sure lives long.

 

[3dogs]

The Epson paper trays are a bit flimsy, not the Canon ones. Of course that only goes for the low cost home printers, the Epson Pro printers are of top quality.

Another disadvantage of the Epson is the ink use, much ink get lost by automatic head cleaning. The problem is not a big issue for us refillers, but I just mention it.

But the Epson print head is much better than the Canon one. I haven't seen an Epson clogging problem that couldn't be solved.
Maybe the Epson print head doesn't live for ever, but it sure lives long.

The paper path trays etc on the 3880 are good, however, the front door is flimsy, buckled and requires gentle management. I rate it as a MAJOR flaw in this product,

Comment has been made on Canon paper handling being better, I can't comment there, well I can only say in respect to the 3880 manual feed aspect, where i have read countless horror stories related to feeding this printer, so much so that I delayed purchasing one for a good year whilst I kept track of the various sagas. In MOST cases @jtoolman responded, and well, brought balance and reason to many of the (hysterical) complaints.
I avoided any printing that would require feeding paper by hand for over a year, then quite by chance I watched a video by Joe then re read my manual............. I will stick my neck out and say, based on my experience It takes a blooming DRONGO to stuff it up! read the Epson instructions then watch Joes' video and if you can get a manual misfeed, make a name tag " I am a Bloomin DRONGO" and wear it when you are loading paper in the 3880........
What I HAVE seen on my 3880 is a print skewed on the paper in auto feed tray mode, but I always assume thats only happening when I am wearing MY drongo badge

The 3880 pressures up the carts, on startup, sounds like ink use but its not, can't say on other models.

I was howled down (elsewhere) for suggesting that printing Auto nozzle checks used ink. TWO highly esteemed Gurus went into print that my assertion was piffle, I was mistaken and a silly novice, just not possible they had BOTH conducted extensive ,conclusive tests....well I tested too, and Auto nozzle checks DO use ink, and lots of it if they encounter a blocked nozzle.
Just recently both have gone on the record in the same forum advising printers AGAINST using AUTO nozzle checks, because it uses too much ink if it encounters a blocked nozzle..................

I forgive, but I never forget...... so on that point I record a resounding to BOTH from the safety of THIS forum