Test results for FORMULABS INK

[Nifty]

Friends,

I'm back from my family reunion and am happy to see everyone still having a good time without me. Six days without any inkjet forum... I was starting to go into withdrawals!

A few quick comments: I've had lengthy conversations with Jerry at alotofthings.com. Jerry is Joe's (the owner) brother and has a lot of experience in the industry. He had mentioned that the ink is sent from Southern California (Formulabs) to China along with an order for the cartridges that the ink SHOULD be put into. Quality control immediately becomes very difficult as there isn't a way for them to guarantee what ink is put into the cartridges.

The problems that I had in the first few days of this forum's existence still linger in my mind. If you remember, my pigment black in my BCI-3ebk was bleeding terribly into adjacent colors: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=24

I got these cartridges for a steal at alotofthings when they were having a sale. Maybe now I can guess why they were so cheap... is it possible that this was one of the mistakenly refilled cartridge batches?

Well, along with the many cartridges I purchased, I also bought some bulk ink which is guaranteed to be from Formulabs because it goes directly to alotofthings (which is relatively close geographically to Formulabs) and then to the customers. When my cartridges ran dry I refilled them with the Formulabs bulk ink and still got the same bleeding problems.

I know a lot more now than I did before due to experimentation and learning from the master's here on the forum. I'm thinking I'd like to get some virgin empty cartridges (or clean mine out with Grandad's techniques) and some ink DIRECTLY from Formulabs and run some tests again to see what I get in regards to bleeding.

Oh, a footnote: When dealing with Jerry at alotofthings.com and trying to figure out the bleeding black issue, he said he would send me a virgin BCI-3ebk cartridge along with a small bottle of "special pigment black ink" that was suppose to be a great formula from Formulabs that didn't bleed at all and was excellent quality. He said the normal price of this special ink was way more expensive, but it was an excellent ink. I've send multiple follow up requests but haven't received the ink or the cartridge.

 

[RC]

To Grandad:

I wonder if you would be so kind as to tell me what kind of a color shift you were getting with Formulabs ink before using the color profile, that is on your 8-color printer.

I have been talking to Formulabs, and they are very eager to correct the problem if they can

Thank
Robert

 

[Nifty]

Robert, next time you are in touch with them, send them a link to this forum. There is potentially a lot of good feedback for them to read on this forum.

 

[RC]

Rob:

I will do that.

Robert

 

[Grandad35]

Robert,

I didn't remember what color cast the Formulabs ink had, so I printed a color chart using the original Canon Printer profile. The grays on that chart show a strong blue/cyan cast in the middle grays with the Formulabs ink. This could be a problem with either the cyan or PC ink.

I have several comments about Formulabs working to change the colors of their inks:
1. It will be very difficult to match the Canon colors across the entire range of colors. It should be relatively easy to get a single ink to match; but when the inks are printed in small droplets immediately adjacent to other inks, the colors that they produce may not be what you expect. This would not be a trivial project, even for an experienced ink formulator.
2. A "Let's tweak the Cyan (or any other color) and see what happens" approach doesn't strike me as a good solution. How will they test the color performance of the new ink combination, and how does that test differ from what they did when they generated the initial formulation?
3. I suspect that Canon developed their inks first and that they build a custom RIP for those inks into each printer's firmware to give them the ultimate in color control with their inks on their printers. IMHO, the bulk ink suppliers should concentrate on delivering a consistent high quality product with a good color match between M/PM and C/PC. The other colors can be adjusted with profiles or printer driver settings. Their inks shouldn't clog the sponges/filters/print head and reliably fire in the nozzles, even when the print head is cold.
4. If Formulabs wants to proceed on this, the new inks should have a different designation or be designed for a different cart set (say the new BCI-7/8). I will be very upset (as will many others) if I can't buy additional bulk ink to match what I already have. If they change the formulation of their existing inks, I will have to throw away all of my remaining ink as soon as I run out of a single color and generate new profiles for every paper that I use with the new ink. There is also the potential problem that the new formulation will cause clogs in the sponge/filter/print head or have trouble "firing" in the print head - problems that could take a long time to develop. If I have to change ink sets, I may choose that time to look at another bulk ink supplier if I am not 100% satisfied with my present inks - presently I will have an incentive to stay with what I am running.

Maybe bulk ink used to be a non-critical product, but a lot of us now rely on getting consistent quality in our bulk inks. This thread is a good case in point - a lot of people were upset that they didn't know what ink they got when they bought prefilled carts.

 

[Nifty]

Grandad, very good points!

 

[RC]

To Grandad and Rob:

I dont think that Formulabs will completely eliminate the inks that are no longer matching the newer printers, and I will ask that question.

The problem comes from the retailers. I believe that retailer should supply the ink number for any ink they sell in bulk or otherwise. This way if a manufacturer creates a new formula for the newer printers, the consumer would be aware and could look or request the older version or number.

One of the problems that exist today is that some retailers use just BCI-6 colors, some use BCI-3e CMY and BCI-6 PC & PM, without the consumer knowing. Yet some switch back and forth.

I agree with Grandad that matching Canon ink perfectly is probably impossible, the best one can do is come close, and sometimes the results are even better than Canon inks.

I also suggested to them to start developing Printer Profiles for their inks, and they were considering that for the future.

For the size of the company, I find them to be very opened mind and very interested in the concerns of consumers.

I am very interested in their ink mainly because of clogging problems with many other inks.

I also asked about the longevity of prints using their ink. They claim that all the inks they produce are designed for long life, but they do not make any claims as to how long. Even Canon requires that you use their ink and a special paper. From what I have read the longevity factor involves both, ink and paper, but the paper plays a bigger role.

I will inform them of all your concerns.

Robert