Spongeless cartridge

[Nifty]

Hey panos... post the pics here for all of us to see!!! Follow the instructions here: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=36

...or send them to me and I'll post them for you.

 

[Grandad35]

Panos,

Thanks for the photos - they help a lot. A few comments based on what I see:
1. The spongeless Magenta shot (6) shows that the top of the ink pickup is completely covered with ink. It makes sense that this cart worked properly.
2. The spongeless Black shot (4) shows that the top of the black ink pickup is only partially covered with ink. It is not surprising that there was an ink delivery problem with black, as air would have been pulled into the pickup instead of ink - the top of the pickup must be completely covered with ink. Is there any way to make the puddle of ink "deeper" with the black cart so that the ink covers the entire pickup?
3. The filter on standard sponge carts presses tightly onto the top of the ink pickup. Even though the ink pickups look dry when these carts are removed, there is a thin layer of ink available at the bottom of the filter unless the cart is empty or clogged.
4. The filter appears to be a simple wire mesh. This will filter out "large" particles, but it may be inadequate for ink. Ink manufacturers claim to filter dye based ink down to 0.2 microns and pigment based inks down to 0.5 microns, and the "cigarette-type" filters used in most carts are available at similar filtration values. Wire mesh filters are typically only rated down to about 10-20 microns.

Have you given up on these carts?

 

[panos]

Grandad, thanks for the explanations. When you say that "air would have been pulled into the pickup instead of ink" you mean that very little ink is provided,

or

that ink is unevenly distributed on the pickup, allowing air to enter the pickup along with ink, thus resulting in ink flowing freely inside the nozzles?

I am leaning towards the second conclusion. If very little were provided, then the bottom [the nozzles] of the printhead would not be covered in black ink (as it was the case when I first removed it). That was an obvious sign of ink leaking from within the nozzles.

I find myself more puzzled now. I need to run more tests.

No, I haven't given up on these carts. Refilling them is a Rob Ludlow dream: clean and easy. If I find a way to make them work, that would be great.

BTW. I bought 25 of them, five for every color. So I have plenty of filters to test, and also in 2-3 days I will also have the time. I will provide more photographs (Occular's were great but I think we should expand).

Oh, as for the metallic filter; it is as you say, but I must add that it is made from an extremely thin metallic fiber. Maybe its not that bad...

 

[Grandad35]

Panos,

I didn't realize that your original reference to ink spilling was referring to ink dripping out of the bottom of the print head, and I hadn't thought much about what was happening in the ink channels. After reflection, I also like your second description of what happens in the ink channels. Since the channels are normally completely full of ink, the ink's surface tension normally prevents ink from dripping out of the nozzles. However, if the channels are only partially full the anti-drip effect of the surface tension is lost, and ink is free to VERY SLOWLY run through the nozzles.

When I mentioned a wire filter, I was talking about wire cloth with about 15-20 wires/mm in both directions (a 50-65 micron spacing) - can you estimate how many wires/mm there are in this filter?

 

[panos]

Grandad, I would say that there are 20-60 wires per mm. I found it impossible to give a more precise estimation.

Question: Is there any way I could test the Jetyoung cartridge on whether it provides adequate ink while the printhead is outside the printer? I am thinking of the following:

1) Remove the printhead
2) Insert the cartridge to its proper position (as shown in shots 1 & 3)
3) Wait to see if ink is dripping from the nozzles (or if ink appears in the nozzles) [it should not]
4) Let the cartridge sit on an alcohol-soaked paper towel
5) Wait to see if ink appears in the paper towel [it should]

What do you think?

 

[Grandad35]

Panos,

With the print head out of the printer you will have to be very careful of how you mount the cart, as the outer locating point for the cart is in the printing carriage, not in the print head. You'll have to take notes and photos of how the cart fits in the print head when it is in the printer, then duplicate this position when the print head is out of the printer. Perhaps the best measurement is the distance between the front of the cart and the print head. I would also check the level of the cart to make sure that the cart will work as designed. The reason for this precaution is that the cart's mounting position affects the relationship of the ink pickup to the cart's ink exit, and this would affect the test.

The second thing that should be done is to prefill the ink channels by pulling a vacuum on the nozzles, just like is done in the printer. If the ink channels are initially full of air, ink could leak for a while even if the cart was working perfectly. This will be a lot more difficult to accomplish.

Why not just install the cart in the printer, run a cleaning cycle to fill the ink channels, wait a few minutes and pull the cart. The ink has to completely cover the ink pickup, just like it does on the colors. If it doesn't, the cart probably won't work.

 

[panos]

Grandad, thanks a LOT! Your advice has been crucial in identifying and fixing (where applicable) the problem.

The color cartridges & the photo black are working ok.

The pigmented black does not deliver ink correctly to the top of the pickup (the metallic filter disc on the printhead) and I was probably right in saying that it delivers a little ink and a little air, allowing black ink to flow through the nozzles and causing a mess at the nozzle area. Thus I have replaced the black print cartridge with an original Canon and now my printer works fine. I'll test it tomorrow as well and post the results here.

My verdict on the spongeless cartridges will be posted after I receive special, updated instructions from Jetyoung. We have unfortunately stumbled upon the Chinese holiday, so I won't be hearing from them till the next week. I've also asked Jetyoung to take a look at this forum; it might provide them with interesting clues.

I can produce a verdict on Canon: they make truly durable printheads!

 

[Grandad35]

Panos,

Glad to be of help.

Please keep us informed of your progress - you are right that these carts sound like a good solution to the problem of clogging BCI-6 sponges and filters (PM and Cyan are my two worst inks).

 

[panos]

Well, I am afraid I have bad news. Although CMY colors still work, the photo black was dripping all night. As a result I got color contamination between the photo black and CMY and had to remove the printhead and clean it with ammonia-based glass cleaner to make it work.

So I've had:

2 pigmented black cartridges that don't work and harm the printhead instead
1 photo black cartridges that doesn't work and harms the printhead instead
1 photo black cartridge whose membrane was leaking air and I could have spilled black ink over myself if I wasn't careful
3 color cartridges that work

I must also note that inspecting the printhead shows very small punctures (recesses) in the pickup areas where the plunger touches the metallic filter discs. I wonder if that would result in printhead performance degradation.

For the time I have replaced all spongeless cartridges with my originals. Until I receive info from Jetyoung, I am not inserting their cartridges back.

 

[Grandad35]

Panos,

A few recesses in the ink pickups may not be too bad (as long as they aren't punctures), but adding a new recess each time that a cart is installed can't be a good thing.