Sealing the refill hole BCI-6 BCI-3

[Nifty]

Wow... this thread really should have been split up into 3 different topics / threads... lots of interesting stuff.

okay...

1) My sponge washed completely clean. I'm also wondering about pigment vs. dye in this cartridge. if I put some OEM ink into this sponge I wonder if it will wash out as well as the non-oem ink did or leave traces behind.

2) I'm also wondering about the dual sponge issue. Grandad said his dual sponge was NOT OEM. I've looked closely at all my OEM and non-OEM carts and it looks like my OEM probably do have dual sponges and the non OEM don't.

3) Regarding the type of sponge. I'm wondering if the sponge in my arrow cart is the same as the grandad's bottom sponge. It definitely isn't as "open cell" as the Lexmark cartridges usually are.

4) RE What kills a sponge: Even if air doesn't hit sponges they deteriorate in time. Some types more than others. My old Canon BJC-1000 printer had the sponges that were very open cell (like the Lexmark) and in time they would hold less and less ink. I found that if I warmed up the ink I could get an old cart to hold quite a bit more ink. As preventative maintenance I actually mixed ink and hot alcohol to thin out any crusty old ink. I actually filled them with 50% ink and 50% alcohol and couldn't tell a difference in the fliers I was printing. Disclaimer: this was back when I was crazy and don't necessarily recommend this procedure! Boy did I love that printer and those cartridges. Those carts were more durable and reliable than anything else I've tried. I refilled a few of those cartridges 50+ times each. If they ever got plugged I could hold the cart above the sink and use a modified syringe to force air into the cart until streams of ink came shooting out of the jets in the printhead. I'd still be using that printer today if it had higher resolution and if the tanks held more ink.

 

[BlasterQ]

Grandad, actually, I've been into refilling since 1995, when I first got my bubblejet printer, a canon BJC-4000. That time, I really have no idea about ink viscocity, ink compatibility, etc. I first got into refilling when I saw in a store an ink refilling kit for canon, this one carries the fullmark brand. That time, inkjets were expensive, cannot print a photo quality image, and the inks where also very expensive. So I was really glad I stumbled upon that refill kit, I bought one kit and started refilling my OEM carts. I'll just drill where I think it is convenient and just inject an estimated amount of ink, and for a while, it works. Of course, after just a few refills, the printhead would eventually keep clogging that I would be forced to buy OEM carts again.
Later on, I got lazy drilling holes, I just put inks to the foam (or filter?) the part where it comes into contact with the printhead. I would put a few drops of ink, print maybe 8 to 10 pages before I would refill again. It worked for me that time. It's not the best way, but I was able to cut cost, which is what it is all about.
That printer lasted me 5 years, pretty good for a printer that time. After that, I never really got to buy an color printer again, because I really didn't find the need to own one since I can always print at the office for free.
But now that I purchased a Canon Powershot S1 IS digital camera, I am again feel the need to own a color printer. And with more 3rd party inks to chose from, and with forums like this, I'm sure I will really make the most of my printer. I don't plan to buy OEM cartridges, I'll just refill them until it can't be refilled anymore, and then I would use the arrowjet carts I bought from alotofthings. I also have two sets of 40oz bulk inks (8oz per color per set) on standby.

 

[Grandad35]

A quick update on the sponge tests.

1 After repeated folding/squeezing cycles, the previously closed cell bottom sponge is now partially closed cell, and air can be blown through it with some effort. It is still not as open as the top sponge, but no air could be blown through it initially. It now also readily absorbs water, taking about 15 seconds to fill if one end is dipped into room temperature water. I also tested some photo black (from a HP 57) and it was absorbed at about the same rate as water.
2 Hot tap water fills the sponge more quickly than room temperature water (9 vs. 15 seconds). This ties in with Nifty-stuffs comment that he could get more warm ink into a cart than he could with cold ink.
3 Soaking a full set of refilled carts in hot tap water (approx. 140 deg F) for 30 minutes made the ink appear darker on the bottom sponge, probably because the ink now filled the sponge more completely.

In summary, a hot water soak is another good (and safe) trick to remember for balky carts. Warming the ink should also help if you have a good way to do it without risking WOW (Wrath Of Wife).

 

[Craig Ross]

Since it looks like a book is going to be written on the hole filling delema
I,ll add mine.I use ahot wax gun then while the glue is still warm put a
small piece of dynmo labelling tape over it to complete the seal and then
to refill scrape it of with a razor knife, although the screw and o ring option
sounds pretty good I'll be trying that one tommorrow.

 

[Craig Ross]

I would like to just add a few of my observations on the Canon sponge issue
I do not subscibe to the getting air in the sponge kills the cart theory for a number of reasons
the least being that the sponge is always vented to air and in fact needs air to act as an
ink pump, to support this I recently installed a speed-brite vacuum refilling station in our
photo shop after going through literally hundreds of canon hp and epson carts and now offer refilling to our customers I kept all the old carts and after about 8 months decided to refill
an old canon cart it was completly dry, devoid of any ink and completly open to air ,yet the
sponge sucked ink up faster than I could inject it in.
I believe the bigger problem is when the sponge is in a semi moist/dry state producing
a very high viscous ink residue that also builds up after a number of refills this was demonstated to me when a client returned a bci_3 black cart to me that I had recently filled but would not work and after discuusing this with my ink supplier it was suggested that a few drops of isoproplyn alchohol in the exit port should dilute the residue.I was stunned a few drops and the entire 20cc reseviour was sucked to the sponge,never again will I consider a canon cart dead.
I'm not saying that air mixed with ink to produce a foam isn't a problem just that air doesn,t
make the cartridge useless. Foamy ink in a cartridge is easily taken care of with a vacuum
filling machine,sorry was I bragging I,ll leave now

 

[Nifty]

Craig,

Thanks so much for your post. Sounds like you've got quite a bit of experience with filling these carts. I visited the http://www.speedbrite.com/ site and felt like a kid in a candy store!

A question: Are you saying that the BCI-6 cartridges don't "go bad"? Can those of us without vacuum machines achieve similar results with a bone dry cartridge?

The theories, as I understand them, are that:
1) Over time the sponge material degrades because of air and/or over-use, etc.
2) The process of draining all the ink from a cartridge causes air pockets in the sponge that create problems with the way the sponge wicks ink from the reservoir.

Have you experience either of these issues?

 

[Grandad35]

Craig,
It's great to get information from someone who has experience using commercial filling equipment. I have a lot of questions for you, if you don't mind:
1. I read the instructions for the Speed-Brite system dealing with refilling Canon BCI-3 and BCI-6 carts, and it said that these carts have to be refilled "with a syringe on low pressure or slowly by hand". Is this how these carts are refilled, or did I miss something?
2. The instructions also say to "Push syringe through label to fill". Is this done with a small needle through the vent hole into the sponge chamber? If it is, how is ink pushed into the ink chamber? If it is not, is it assumed that the refill plug has already been removed and that the ink is injected into the ink chamber in the usual way?
3. If the ink is injected directly into the ink chamber, is the needle sealed to the cart so that pressure can be applied to the ink to force ink into the sponge chamber?
4. How many CCs of ink can you put into an "empty" BCI-3 or BCI-6 cart?
5. Do these carts need to be evacuated before refilling?
6. The instructions say that if the sponge is filled too high that the cart won't work. Do you know why they say this?
7. The instructions call for the exit port to be covered with tape. Is the vent port also sealed, or is it left open?
8. In your post, you mentioned that a "vacuum filling machine" would take care of foamy ink. Does the Speed-Brite do this? If not, how does this machine work and how do you know when to use it?
8. You also mentioned that putting a few drops of isopropyl alcohol on the exit port did something to the sponge that allowed it to accept a lot more ink. Is rubbing alcohol (70% pure) good enough for this, or do you need high purity isopropyl alcohol? Is there any downside to doing this? Should it be done before every refill?

Sorry for so many questions, but there's so much to learn.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Nifty]

Grandad, I hope Mr. Craig Ross answers those excellent questions.

As an update, I've been using Mark's idea (#6 3/8" zinc screw and #60 o-ring) and so far am very impressed. The screws don't fit into the refill hole of the OEM cartridge (so you'll need to make your own hole with the screw, or with a heated paper clip) but the screws fit perfectly in my Arrow cartridges (which I'm having more an more problems with).

 

[fotofreek]

What problems with the Arrow carts? Were these the ones you mentioned that the ink didn't flow out ofproperly? Was that when the prefilled carts were used or after refilling?

 

[Nifty]

fotofreek, yes, the problem with the ink not flowing from the reservoir into the sponge here: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=35 See answers over there.