Refilling without resetting Pro-100

[Emulator]

Perhaps the time will come when having a refillable ink system will be regarded as a good selling feature and those manufacturers that block it, will find their printer sales fall to zero!

At least we can live in hope.

 

[stratman]

Go back and seek works on Epson class action lawsuit

This conversation is about Canon. Was there a significant problem with Canon's BCI cartridge pre-chip prism ink level monitoring?

Scientifc credentiaIs?

Good but still not proof. Do you know proprietary information or data from reverse engineering?

I said scientific "method", not credentials. One does not need credentials to understand or contribute to science. I do, however, have credentials that involve understanding the scientific method concept and evaluating the validity of research. Regardless, I understand the difference between proof and presumption.

Stratman, bring out what YOUR experiments to tell me otherwise.

One needs good data. One does not need to obtain the data themselves. Did you have to redo all the experiments, proofs and theorems that resulted in the data you learned in school or did you learn the preponderance of information from reading books and lectures? I have read this forum for years, including your posts, so my understanding may only be as good as the data presented in the forum. If you think my comprehension is lacking, maybe it is because the data is lacking.

I will not call something incontrovertible fact when it has not been established. The function of the chip and prism combo as known on this forum is an accepted explanation based on observation and accumulated knowledge but is not indisputable proof. Stating this is not meant to devalue your opinion but to call a spade a spade. I have already stipulated your explanation may be correct and continue, with qualification, to support this theory.

 

[mikling]

Perhaps the time will come when having a refillable ink system will be regarded as a good selling feature and those manufacturers that block it, will find their printer sales fall to zero!

At least we can live in hope.

Last time, with pressured systems including sprung diaphragm type systems (which is negative pressure), the behavior of the carts is significantly better controlled as opposed to open passive type systems, not just from a mechanical standpoint but also from an environmental standpoint. There is possibly a reason why there is no prism in a PGI-9. Look at the pressure required and how that could be applied as uniform as possible....it must be done on the shortest Xmax. That is the width and not the length of the cart or height for that matter, How could you engineer a diaphragm on the side without having a long stroke and non linear effects. Next, how could you engineer bellows on the side and have a prism. On the printer carriage there is limited space if it had to share tooling with the Pro-9000. But the most important question before you engineer in a prism is whether it was needed at all as compared to the sponge system or needed as critically. The life of an engineer is riddled with specifics and details overlooked by a layman. Each small design decision is holistic to the desired end result. If you are able to recall Canon delayed the 9500 after announcing for quite a while for a reason..I'm pretty sure it had to with refining the carts. This could either be due to refining spring pressures and/or the stirring system. Note the requirement for the stirring system and the long term aspects as it alludes to refilling. These OEM carts possibly cost Canon more than the ink inside! Then they decided they needed a prism for the Pro-1 but still did not on the Pro-10. Gotta be a reason...and apparently some aftermarket Pro-1 carts do not sport prisms so obviously for this machine the prism is not working or not necessary for a long period or for most of the time.

The chip also serves a very very important function at the consumer level to the consumer's benefit. I am going to shout. IT PREVENTS UNATTENTIVE CONSUMERS FROM MIXING UP PHOTOMAGENTA AND MAGENTA AS WELL AS PHOTOCYAN AND CYAN and even other color positions. This is a godsend for their warranty and customer support when they get calls for defective printers and suddenly their printers are not printing properly. I can imagine the problems they had with the photoprinters and customers mixing up ink positions and then complaining when their printers had no chips. I know because that is my one single biggest headache with refillers. If there was a way to prevent this with refillers, I'd pay for it. It's the person holding the bottle.

I really will not waste time on this anymore. It is not worth anyone's time to further printers older than 10 years where there is no issue and where someone wants to talk about scientific method and present a sample size of two. What science is that. Certainly not staistics.

 

[The Hat]

This conversation is about Canon. Was there a significant problem with Canon's BCI cartridge pre-chip prism ink level monitoring?

Yes, there was, for instance if the printer signalled an empty cartridge, it was possible to just remove that cartridge and then carry on printing without that cartridge been present anymore, the result would lead to the inevitable loss of the print head...

And before you ask @stratman, no I won’t be retesting this theory out because its guaranteed assured destruction, @ghwellsjr found this problem out himself.

apparently some aftermarket Pro-1 carts do not sport prisms so obviously for this machine the prism is not working or not necessary for a long period or for most of the time.

If the Pro 1 aftermarket cartridge doesn’t have a proper functioning prism, then this will cause a fatal error locking the user out of their printer.
Here is a post dealing with this same issue..
https://www.printerknowledge.com/th...ink-and-refill-options.9954/page-9#post-96433

 

[stratman]

Yes, there was, for instance if the printer signalled an empty cartridge, it was possible to just remove that cartridge and then carry on printing without that cartridge been present anymore, the result would lead to the inevitable loss of the print head...

You can make something fail by doing extraordinary maneuvers. Same with the new chipped cartridges. One can always find a way to make monitoring fail outside of recommended use. Following your premise, there are no well performing ink level monitoring printers.

The point was and still holds true that the pre-chip BCI printers performed ink level monitoring sufficient to their purpose.

Likewise, no one has provided proof beyond an educated guess the function of the chip or chip-prism combo. No one.

 

[The Hat]

The point was and still holds true that the pre-chip BCI printers performed ink level monitoring sufficient to their purpose.

That’s just it, the BCI carts preformed practically flawlessly and beyond some idiots trying to fool them, they were in my mind perfect in every way.

I have always felt that the Chip was never part of any good ink monitoring system that the prism hadn’t already adequately covered, so therefore I reckon it was just Canon fooling with us...