Refilling without resetting Pro-100

[PeterBJ]

I think it is a pity risking a nice printer like the iP4500 in a potentially destructive test.

 

[The Hat]

Here is that update that I promised.

My Magenta ran to empty before the Cyan did but the Cyan was running on air and would have failed in the next couple of sheets. !

Conclusion: - from this test I can ascertain that the printer did in fact ignored the Prism all together which would have caused the head to run dry, had the Magenta not stepped in to save the day.

Because of my interference, by me resetting the chip the balance between the EPROM, Prism and cartridge chip were totally compromised and would have led to disaster had the Magenta not run out first, so reset and refill and don’t jeopardise your print head...

Even Windows gave a warning too

 

[mikling]

A Brave soul Hat is!

So there you go. Underfilling and resetting can be dangerous. Now if you overfill a bit, all is well and the prism will work. There is a window within which the chip needs to be in at which point the prism will kick in. So if a cart leaks a lot, the prism will not have your back if the leak is large enough to have too large an ink variance. My estimation based on the trials I performed tells me that the safe underfill variance is around 20%. This number is of no significance because there is no reason why someone would want to underfill anyways. Except for fun and games........................................

 

[The Hat]

Here’s another update on this crazy test.

The iP4500 was on its last legs anyway, all the nozzle checks were poor and so were the prints coming off it, BUT wait there’s more...

After giving it a good run on this test that was certain to be fatal, it’s now back working perfectly under its own steam again, in fact it’s perfect and so are the nozzle checks, and there was I trying to write off the printer before its time. it had only been useful for Duplex text.
That’s a first, and now this treasure is back on my love list once more...
and the Maxify replacement can wait indefinitely.
Who says testing is fruitless and wasteful ..

 

[mikling]

Here’s another update on this crazy test.

The iP4500 was on its last legs anyway, all the nozzle checks were poor and so were the prints coming off it, BUT wait there’s more...

After giving it a good run on this test that was certain to be fatal, it’s now back working perfectly under its own steam again, in fact it’s perfect and so are the nozzle checks, and there was I trying to write off the printer before its time. it had only been useful for Duplex text.
That’s a first, and now this treasure is back on my love list once more...
and the Maxify replacement can wait indefinitely.
Who says testing is fruitless and wasteful ..

The reason for the prism to synchronize to the chip is very simple. Ink consumption estimates can vary between what should occur and what actually occurs. Now if we add to this that the aspect that the consumption can take place over months, then mistracking will and does occur. To the end user using one time cartridges, the most critical aspect is to notify the user of an EMPTY condition. Thus to get around this expected mistracking and determine an empty condition more accurately, the only point that this could be done is when the reservoir empties and thus Canon chose this point.
Now imagine a plane that is heading towards a destination. There is a pilot and there is a navigator. The intended destination is say 2000 miles away. The average speed of the plane is expected to be 200 mph on prior trips. So the pilot estimates that it will take approximately 10 hours. There is also a navigator who knows and can see a landmark that is 200 miles away from where they need to land. The navigator goes to sleep and sets an alarm to wake him/her up after 8 1/2 hours after taking off. When the plane flies, there will be all sorts of weather conditions that will make the real average speed vary. On a normal day everything goes well. The navigator wakes up and looks for the landmark, that day there are some stronger headwinfs that slows the plane down so that after 9 hours and 15 mins the navigator sees the landmark. As a result of this the pilot now can correctly estimate the time of landing. which is now 15 minutes later than scheduled. The landmark is similar to the prism seeing no ink and thus can estimate much more accurately the point when the cartridge will be empty.

Now suppose the alarm for the navigator failed and remains asleep for the entire flight. After 10 hours the pilot must descend and circle around and if no landmark is seen, must land the plane safely somewhere because fuel will run out soon and landing a plane safely nowhere is better than running out of fuel while flying...which would be like running out of ink while printing. The pilot is akin to the chip.

I think the above analogy will better serve those might be confused about control logic as previously described.

 

[stratman]

Now if we add to this that the aspect that the consumption can take place over months, then mistracking will and does occur.

Why would mistracking occur? Are you suggesting inherent faulty function of the chip to record and remember consumption?

 

[mikling]

Each cartridge will behave differently in its physical functions, over the course of over a million operations small variances can and will add up. Now add to the fact that one peristaltic pump is used for all the cartridges in say just a purge. The ink extracted from all cartridges will NOT be identical. Yet, the tracking will assume they are identical. So how do you fix and account for that? Ink physical characteristics will vary from color to color and even from batch to batch. At some point the tracking will go off and a "re-calibration" occurs when the prism is activated at that single point. If you think for example that as long as the printer prints an ink, that the amt ejected is the same as long as it prints, you'd actually be wrong...even if both printed perfectly. Surprised? I will say no more. What about ink drying inside the cartridge over time ? How does the chip account for that?

 

[stratman]

@mikling

Fudge factor built in by Canon. By design ink is leftover in the sponge when Canon says the cartridge is empty that takes into account the things you mention. The process need not be atomic clock accurate. No complicated schemes necessary, the prism excepted.

As far as we know, Canon could have had a billion left over prism units from earlier days and decided to use them in their chipped-generation models instead of dumping the prisms. Tweaking the process of ink monitoring for improved accuracy would make the designers happy and their bosses look good as well.

It is worth noting that older non-chipped models had well functioning prism-only ink monitoring.

I will say no more.

I am not sure how to take this. Do you have more data to share but will not?

I am not saying you are incorrect. You very well may be correct. However, I am trying to apply reasonable scientific method to this topic, including looking for corroboration of our assumptions. So far, this topic is heavy on anecdote and hypothesis and light on irrefutable and demonstrable fact.

Unless you have more you are holding back...

 

[mikling]

@mikling

Fudge factor built in by Canon. By design ink is leftover in the sponge when Canon says the cartridge is empty that takes into account the things you mention. The process need not be atomic clock accurate. No complicated schemes necessary, the prism excepted.

As far as we know, Canon could have had a billion left over prism units from earlier days and decided to use them in their chipped-generation models instead of dumping the prisms. Tweaking the process of ink monitoring for improved accuracy would make the designers happy and their bosses look good as well.

It is worth noting that older non-chipped models had well functioning prism-only ink monitoring.


I am not sure how to take this. Do you have more data to share but will not?

I am not saying you are incorrect. You very well may be correct. However, I am trying to apply reasonable scientific method to this topic, including looking for corroboration of our assumptions. So far, this topic is heavy on anecdote and hypothesis and light on irrefutable and demonstrable fact.

Unless you have more you are holding back...

I have a hard time not laughing at this statement. Go back and seek works on Epson class action lawsuit and then fast forward, review all ink systems and then report back. Then I might take your critique seriously. The comparison of the prism only and prism with chip is hilarious.

Scientifc credentiaIs? BASc, Mechanical Engineering 1980. I realized years ago I conceptualized the Honda PGM-FI system in 1979 without knowing it. My professor who was a mechanical engineer with a PhD, did not understand what could be done with a little bit of digital electronics in conjunction with mechanical systems. Even as a mechanical engineering student then, I was making PLC type interfaces to replace pneumatic logic and my fellow students did not grasp the potential...that we have in front of us today. Lost out to Panasonic by a couple months for certain patents on Microwave ovens in 1990.

This is turning out to be another gray ink discussion which the detractors are now hiding in their corners.

Hat is now a convert...on two fronts. You can clear nozzle checks with sustained printing (provided you know what is happening). I reported this months ago!. Next. It was believed that the prism was always active on chip systems and we know definitively it is not now.

Stratman, bring out what YOUR experiments to tell me otherwise.

I think I'm wasting my time.

 

[The Hat]

I reckon Canon made the chip system to prevent us from refilling, what else is it good for, the chip-less cartridge worked great but could be easily manipulated to the owners’ advantage, Owners 1 Canon 0.

Then came the chipped cartridge, but again there was a great work around with the chip resetter, Owner 2 Canon 0.

Then Canon switched tactics with their new chips, and the chip manufacturers cleaned up with the one-time chip, Owners 1 Canon 1.

But not for long because Canon struck back again with their all new chip that couldn’t be hacked, and now they’ve locked us out of everything, game over and Canon are for now the clear winners.

P.S. I've never run out of ink in my Opaque PGI-9 prism-less cartridges, there’re a win win cartridge every time...

I think I'm wasting my time.

We're not finished with you yet, knowledge is power...