P900 Premium glosssy paper not enough patches or fake Epson ink?

[Smile]

Hello,

With Epson P900 brand new printer, I try to re-create Epson Premium Glossy paper profile.
I can't seem to make it happen. The profile is way smaller and does not reproduce blue colors correct among others.

Profile is made with i1Profiler or Copra 8, no difference.
I use 2945 patch target generated in i1Profiler.

OEM Profile Gamut is 784
I1Profiler Gamut is 681

Printed using no color management in printer driver. Printer software Qimage.

These 2 GamutVision charts show that OEM Epson profile has way larger BW error, that is to be expected as it is generic one fits all type profile.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Which inks are you using ? Which paper are you using ? Which quality level/paper selection are you using ?

I would recommend to start first with a small patch count - to save inks and paper - to get a first impression of a profile - size - shape - 283 or 440 or a similar number should be o.k. the overall gamut does not change much if you use more patches , it'll improve accuracy within the gamut boundaries. I'm just using 96 patches for a first run similar to the ColorMunki setup.
It's easy with the 96 -patchsheet to monitor parameter changes - different papers selected - different driver settings - that's just quick and easy and good enough for a first run .
Your gamut plots appear to show a profile made either on a different paper or with a different inkset - but be aware that the Epson profile is made to support paper and ink variations which are averaged out - your profile is just for one piece of paper with the inks you are using - without averaging any paper, ink and hardware/printhead variations. I have seen variations similar to yours - not as wide but my profiles with Epson inks on Epson paper - with i1profiler - were different to the Epson profiles for some papers - and was identical just for one paper - a matte paper.

 

[Smile]

Which inks are you using ? Which paper are you using ? Which quality level/paper selection are you using ?

OEM Epson ink that came with the printer.
OEM Epson Premium Glossy paper
Default quality, tried all quality levels no change.

Take a look at this test, OLD printer with cheap china ink nice blue colour, New expensive printer for 1200Eur + 450Eur another set of 10 carts (printer drains the included carts fast) = Result No blue colours can be made.

I think its driver bug/problem. Or Fake EPSON ink.

This problem is on other papers too. So this is not related to EPSON premium glossy paper, it's just this paper was purchased to see where the problem is third party paper or EPSON ink itself / driver problem.

But since it's very clear and easy to turn off color management in driver, I see not other problem as ink.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I see not other problem as ink.

The image printed with the Epson profile - middle image - shows much better dark blues than the right image - your i1 profile with otherwise the same conditions - same inks - same paper - that can't be an ink problem at this point.

 

[Smile]

But i also created profile for left photo for r3000 printer, this even used cheap refill inks. Yet blue color is best looking there.

If you look at rgb colors first screenshot the oem profile has way more light colors for green and blue. Thats why gamut is worse.

P900 was set to no color management, once you turn off color enhancement etc. You cant adjust color output of the printer.

Clearly this is a bug, or intentional behavior.


Any ideas?

 

[Smile]

The image printed with the Epson profile - middle image - shows much better dark blues than the right image - your i1 profile with otherwise the same conditions - same inks - same paper - that can't be an ink problem at this point.

The difference being nobody knows how epson printed test targets, how many colors etc.

My targets we printed by qimage, let printer manage color, and then color management off in printer driver. Clearly epson printed charts must have more deep green and blue then what p900 outputs in no color management mode

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

My targets we printed by qimage, let printer manage color, and then color management off in printer driver

I cannot follow your arguments and let's keep the R3000 out of the discussion - for the time being. We deal with a strange effect with the P900 and profiles for it - yours and the Epson profile.

Please print the patch sheet with Qimage with 'printer ICC = off' and color management off in the driver as well and create a new alternate profile and reprint your image

 

[The Hat]

The difference being nobody knows how epson printed test targets, how many colors etc. But since it's very clear and easy to turn off color management in driver, I see not other problem as ink

I’m not much into this profile making game at all, but my understanding is that Epson would make their own profiles with their printer manages colour on, not off...

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I haven't done profiles for Canon printers since a long time so I'm not able to compare the Epson and the Canon modes.

There are 3 situations to discuss

- if you want to print with the OEM profile you just activate 'Printer ICC on'

- various Epson printer drivers let you activate as well 3rd party icc-profiles - e.g. supplied by the paper company, you select and activate that icc-profile via the driver, the driver selects to correct driver depending on the paper selection.

- there is no icc profile available - you print a patch sheet with all color mgmt options off for the maximal ink output, you might have options to control the ink limit - total or by color

- you create the icc-profile - ArgyllCMS - i1Profiler - ColorMunki - I don't mention Datacolor Spyder - and activate it as described above or alternatively in the application/print software like Photoshop or Lightroom or Qimage or.....with color mgmt off in the driver to prevent double profiling in this case

 

[Smile]

Please print the patch sheet with Qimage with 'printer ICC = off' and color management off in the driver as well and create a new alternate profile and reprint your

Allready tried this way too, there is no difference. Qimage does not manage color if you let driver do it, and if it is turned off in epson driver its the same as your suggestion. I get identical targets printed both ways. Still green and blue are too light.

How can i increase print density in green and blue after turning color management off in printer driver?