New Epson ITS (Ink Tanks System, aka CISS) Product Line

[3dogs]

Well i just had to come here and ask for honest opinion from more experienced members.

At home i have a brand new Epson 3880 that i got dirt cheap for 600€ (with full carts). My main usage is print for photo books and when i wanted to buy some paper for printer i came upon Tecco reseller that said that Epson L1800 dye printer would be a better option for photo books, since it is 3x cheaper print and better resistance to scratches and fingerprints (offcourse with Tecco paper combo). And yes i saw some sample prints that were made and were much more durable than pigment print, but not in all areas (fade and water resistance is better with pigments).
I performed my own tests and found out.
3880 pigment:
+ excelent water resistance
+ awesome quality on fine art and matte
- bronzing in highlighted areas
- less scratch resistance but still quite ok with the right paper types

L1800 dye:
+ 3 cheaper print
+ more scratch resistant (Tecco drylab paper)
+ no bronzing present
- less water resistance (even with Tecco drylab)

Each printer has its own qualities and drawbacks but what i am wondering is it worth buying extra dye printer when i have Epson 3880 already. I believe fade resistance is not an issue since it is dark storage but still pigments are more archival.
Well if i can say, the main arguments for buying L1800 dye printer are price of print and no bronzing on highlights.

I know that there are some ways to lower the 3880 costs, i am leaning towards refillable carts with combo of OEM ink from bigger K3 ink printers. 3rd party inks? I dont know? I am having doubts.

My plan was to make books myself too.
Like you I found that the prints scratched and were ruined very fast
@jtoolman put me onto a low odour spray that improves things a lot BUT is not a 100% cure.
Media seems to be critical, the papers that will absorb more seem to do better so matte papers have a bit more resistance.

With respect to the 3880 I have one and I am a No 1 fan of this printer. Refilling is IMHO the best, @jtoolman may add here to let us know if it is an option to purchase a spare set of carts and use dye ink in the same printer.

Cheers

Andrew

 

[Borut]

I did buy L800 so i haw now original ciss system whit inks .
Now i dont haw to look for best 3rd part inks and ask all araund which inks are good enough
so you dont haw later problems whit skinn tones and other crap.

Best choice is, if you can see by some user, that haw same printer and 3rd parts inks in use.
so you can compare your original whit 3rd part inks...

Other will say more to help you..

 

[Smile]

If you print for photo albums then dye is better because it gives:

+better larger gamut in most cases
+choose paper without any problems (glossy, matt, luster, etc)
+no scraches with right papers
+no fading in the album anyway
+dye is the only way to get the true gloss of paper

I use the dye ink myself without any problems, the pigment is like "printing with sand" imho. You need it for archyval quality but only if you use OEM ink, the third party pigments are still way behind OEM. And the only users that use OEM ink are

+the ones that are paranoid about quality
+print for a museum.
+dont know about ICC profiles so they stash their money for OEM ink and paper to get an acceptable print quality compared to third party inks.

 

[Smile]

I did buy L800 so i haw now original ciss system whit inks .
Now i dont haw to look for best 3rd part inks and ask all araund which inks are good enough
so you dont haw later problems whit skinn tones and other crap.

Best choice is, if you can see by some user, that haw same printer and 3rd parts inks in use.
so you can compare your original whit 3rd part inks...

Other will say more to help you..

Well inks for L800 will last you 14-18years framed under glass, in year 2005 it was said that canon for example OEM inks lasted 25 years. IMHO that means EPSON inks are crap if EPSON brand means anything. It's amzing to see how "the brand name" interfere swith consumers minds.

 

[cls]

you could also print with OEM inks harvested from Epson 7900 Cartridges so basically HDR Epson Ink
in germany its about 0,31€ per ml, one cartriges has 700ml = ~210-220€ depending on your source
you need 6 catridges to start with > 1.320,- € for 4,2Liters of OEM epson ink... or just buy inktec powerchrome inks for ~80€ per Liter = 336€

 

[Smile]

Yes I know the trick "harvested from Epson 7900 Cartridges" I agree it's what everyone does if they are serious about print permanence and price ratio. This ink can be used on any PIEZO head printer like my brother printer for example

 

[Smile]

I wonder what cart one neds to buy to harvest largest quantity of Claria DYE ink?

 

[3dogs]

You need it for archyval quality but only if you use OEM ink, the third party pigments are still way behind OEM. And the only users that use OEM ink are

+the ones that are paranoid about quality
+print for a museum.
+dont know about ICC profiles so they stash their money for OEM ink and paper to get an acceptable print quality compared to third party inks.

the third party pigments are still way behind OEM. And the only users that use OEM ink are

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?

Non of the inks we are using today have been in use for long enough to prove/ disprove ANY claim of quality or durability by ANYONE........full stop!

My evidence : The Worlds greatest Scientists and Religious Leaders stated as fact that our planet is FLAT, so any scientific model of ink durability is at best a crock of COCKY POO.....we will only arrive at FACT on that in around 200 years

That I agree to be polite, tempers my response, I feel you should have appended the rider (IMHO) at the point you asserted superiority to OEM for performance and durability IMHO

I am ANAL, not paranoid about quality and durability, that is why I use CONE and PRECISION COLORS inks!!! NOT - OEM!!!. Other members work with different brands of Third Party ink, and I am sure that they too reached their own choice through their pursuit of the best results.

I print for a MUSEUM, .................my own. and when I pass they (my prints) will go to a Public Museum, as my retribution on society for allowing OEM's the freedom to treat us so badly (IMHO)

I DO know about ICC profiles, and print using a printer capable of having critical settings tweaked to lay down the proper volume of ink, at the correct rate and density to render the output Archival on the paper I use and STILL use third party inks, because I do believe that they ARE better made, researched, and priced.

But most of all I am part of a small community dedicated to refilling, research, innovation and experimentation, not to mention the great repair, refurbish and recover related to printers themselves.. that are part of this OPEN forum where we seek to enlighten, not foist opinion presented as fact on folks seeking advice from us.


Sheesh!

 

[The Hat]

All of this talk on ink longevity is totally wasted because of the way that manufactures produce paper nowadays, leaves a lot to be desired.

What the point in boosting that your ink will last 200 years when the paper won’t last 25 or less years in a lot of cases, Paper made from wood pulp is a very poor substitute..

 

[costadinos]

I wonder what cart one neds to buy to harvest largest quantity of Claria DYE ink?

Noritsu, Fuji and Epson make drylabs that are essentially very fast inkjets, and they all use dye inks made by Epson, in 500ml and 700ml cartridges, at about the price of their 700ml pigment cartridges.
Now this is isn't exactly the same as Claria but it should be as good if not better in terms of fade resistance as it's designed for commercial use.