Needle length for German Durchstich refill method

[nucari]

I recently purhcased a Hobbicolors refill pack which included a couple of needles. After a lot of reading on this forum I 've decided to go with the German refill method.

The needles in the Hobbicolors pack are 38 mm (1.5 inch) long (measurement does not include plastic hub connector) and 18g diameter (1.27 mm or 0.05 inch outside diameter). Has anyone used these needles for refilling with the German method?

Will these needles be long enough to penetrate far enough into the cartridge for refilling? Also will this diameter needle be ok?

The needles have blunt ends and from what I've read some people seem to prefer sharp ones while others prefer the blunt ones. I figure as long as I take care when inserting the needle through the sponge then the blunt needle should be ok. Any thoughts on this?

 

[headphonesman]

I recently purhcased a Hobbicolors refill pack which included a couple of needles. After a lot of reading on this forum I 've decided to go with the German refill method.

The needles in the Hobbicolors pack are 38 mm (1.5 inch) long (measurement does not include plastic hub connector) and 18g diameter (1.27 mm or 0.05 inch outside diameter). Has anyone used these needles for refilling with the German method?

Will these needles be long enough to penetrate far enough into the cartridge for refilling? Also will this diameter needle be ok?

The needles have blunt ends and from what I've read some people seem to prefer sharp ones while others prefer the blunt ones. I figure as long as I take care when inserting the needle through the sponge then the blunt needle should be ok. Any thoughts on this?

You do not mention your printer /cart type , I am presuming its a Canon using CLI8 type carts.
The minimum length of needle must be 2 inches to reach from the normal entry point , any other entry point will be difficult and may compromise cart operation.
I prefer sharp needles , blunt ones can work but they are resisted more by the sponge, they may be also compromising sponge effectiveness over a period of use.
The guage of my sharp needles is 21G x 2", 0,8mmx50mm, quite fine , no resistance through sponge and will make their own hole in far wall, if the bottom interior aperature is missed.

 

[nucari]

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry, yes I have a Canon IP5200 printer which uses CLI-8 carts.

Arh, I was hoping to use the hobbicolors needles cause I haven't been able to source any other ones.

headphonesman, where did you purchase your needles from?

Does anyone know of anywhere online or elsewhere that I could buy them from? (I live in Australia.) I was thinking of trying a pharmacy but don't know if they would sell them to me.

 

[nucari]

I forgot to also ask, do you make the hole in the outside wall of the cart with the sharp tipped refill needle or do you use something else eg. drill bit or push pin?

 

[avolanche]

Do NOT try to make the hole with a needle.It will bend.For that reason,I prefer 18ga for the ink.

Use a very small drill bit,push pin,or heated brad.

 

[headphonesman]

Thanks for the reply.


headphonesman, where did you purchase your needles from?

Does anyone know of anywhere online or elsewhere that I could buy them from? (I live in Australia.) I was thinking of trying a pharmacy but don't know if they would sell them to me.

Here in the UK the pharmacies also refuse point blank to sell to weirdos wishing to inject ink, but a medical equipment wholesale firm sent me a box of 100 for approx 14 Aus dollars , but I am not sure they will post to Oz , and thats maybe too many for you.

There is a UK Printer supplies website that carries small amounts of sharp needles for Durchstich enthusiasts , the propriator is a major supporter of this Forum, but again I am not sure he can post to Oz.
If he can`t , I recommend you do a Web search for Oz based med/vet equipment suppliers , like I did for UK

I make my holes with a "Map" type pin , (like the police use on their maps to show incident locations), these are to be got from Office Supplies outlets. You can hold and push these fairly easily and control the size of the hole better. Do not use the needle.

http://www.octoink.co.uk/store/
http://www.medisave.co.uk/needles-18-gauge-pink-c-137_385_397.html

If after trying the above points you are still stuck come back to this thread, but I am sure you will be successful.

PS this company say they ship worldwide also they do a set of 10........may be worth good investigation
http://www.midmeds.co.uk/needles-gauge-green-c-25_49_174_186.html

 

[Tin Ho]

There is an alternative German method that a 1.5" needle will be just long enough. I used a metal pin to punch a hole at the top of the cartridge rather than the rear lower corner of the main ink chamber. This is a spot where you can push the needle in and push it further in between the sponge and the plastic between the main chamber and the reservoir chamber. The needle will be right at the hole between the two ink chambers at the bottom of the cartridge. Just flip the cartridge 90 degrees to have the main chamber on the top and the reservoir chamber at the bottom. Ink will flow into the reservoir chamber when you inject ink this way. By doing it this way you do not even punch a hole through the sponge. You won't need a sharp needle. A blunt one will do still. I think this should be called American Method and it works better. You can tape the hole after refilling is done.

 

[websnail]

There is a UK Printer supplies website that carries small amounts of sharp needles for Durchstich enthusiasts , the propriator is a major supporter of this Forum, but again I am not sure he can post to Oz.

"he" will look into the legalities and get back to you...

All the needles come with a cover and are sealed so it should be OK, but you gotta be careful with postal regs...

Ref: http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400044&mediaId=36200679

Sharp objects Sharp objects like knives, kitchen utensils and gardening tools may only be posted if they are packaged appropriately so that they are no risk to employees, other postal items or recipients.

So, it seems there's no real restriction... Doesn't even mention the USA as being verboten, although wrapping stuff up is a must anyway.


... just checked my mailing tables... ouch! think maybe I should include standard airmail too

 

[nucari]

Thanks guys for your help.

I'll first try and find some needles locally and then if I have no luck I'll try your good suggestions.

Tin Ho wrote:

There is an alternative German method that a 1.5" needle will be just long enough. I used a metal pin to punch a hole at the top of the cartridge rather than the rear lower corner of the main ink chamber. This is a spot where you can push the needle in and push it further in between the sponge and the plastic between the main chamber and the reservoir chamber. The needle will be right at the hole between the two ink chambers at the bottom of the cartridge. Just flip the cartridge 90 degrees to have the main chamber on the top and the reservoir chamber at the bottom. Ink will flow into the reservoir chamber when you inject ink this way. By doing it this way you do not even punch a hole through the sponge. You won't need a sharp needle. A blunt one will do still. I think this should be called American Method and it works better. You can tape the hole after refilling is done.

Tin, I'm trying to understand exactly what you did to refill the carts in this different method. Do you have anymore details (maybe in another post that I missed)? Has anyone else used this method?

From my understanding, the needle is inserted into the cart from the top into the main chamber. Is there a small gap between the sponge and the edge of the main chamber which is just wide enough for the needle to fit in? Or is it inserted into the divider which divides the reservoir chamber and the main chamber? The end of the needle will go in as far as the hole between the two chambers. Ink is then injected into this hole at a 90 degree angle and ink will flow into and fill up the reservoir chamber and saturate the sponge. I might have to have a closer look at a cart and see if I can work this out. Maybe a picture or diagram would help.

Is this right?

How easy is refilling with this (American) method compared to the German Durchstich method?

 

[Tin Ho]

From my understanding, the needle is inserted into the cart from the top into the main chamber. Is there a small gap between the sponge and the edge of the main chamber which is just wide enough for the needle to fit in?

Sorry I did not make it clear enough. The needle is inserted between the sponge and the divider, in parallel to the divider. There is really no gap or space between the sponge and the divider. But the sponge is not glued to the plastic divider so it is actually very easy to to insert a blunt needle into it. A needle of 1.5 inch long is just long enough that the tip will be right where the hole is at the bottom of the divider when the needle is fully inserted. The opening of the needle is not going to point at the hole. It is pointing at a 90 degree of the hole. But if you flip the cartridge up 90 degrees the needle will be horizontal. When you inject ink the gravity will cause the ink to drop into the hole into the reservoir chamber. If you inject ink fast some ink will be absorbed by the sponge but most of it will still go into the reservoir chamber because of gravity.

The authentic German Method inserts the needle through the sponge which could potentially damage the structure of the sponge near the exit hole. My (American) method inserts the needle between the sponge and the plastic divider. The needle is at a 90 degree angle of the German Method. This may appear weird but based on real experiment the ink has no difficulty to enter the reservoir chamber. And you can use 1.5 inch blunt and sharp needles. The German method injects ink directly into the reservoir chamber. My American method injects ink at the opening of the reservoir chamber. The gravity then moves the ink into the reservoir chamber.

How easy is refilling with this (American) method compared to the German Durchstich method?

It is somewhat difficult to insert a needle, especially a blunt needle, through the dense sponge in the German Method. You will have no difficulty at all to insert a blunt or sharp needle between the sponge and the plastic divider. So I will say that the American method is easier. I tape the hole I drilled to prevent ink from drying up (slowly) through the hole over time. But you can leave it open if you use a lot of ink and refill frequently. Sorry I do not have a picture right now. I'll post one when I have a chance to take a shot of it.