Needle length for German Durchstich refill method

[yupkime]

When I get some needles over 1.5" I will try the American method again since those needles will go all the way to the bottom right next to the divider hole with lots of room to spare.

1.5" needles are just a couple of mm too short which I think causes the ink to go into the sponge prematurely and saturate it.

I don't know, I just like filling from the top more than from the front and it seems that there is less chance of sponge damage going from the top as well.

 

[pharmacist]

Could someone actually visualize this so-called American refill method ? It would be nice to compare it side by side with the German durchstich refill method.

 

[jflan]

Could someone actually visualize this so-called American refill method ? It would be nice to compare it side by side with the German durchstich refill method.

I've always understood the "American method" as filling through the top of the cart, at the reservoir side (spongeless side) using the original Canon fill port or creating a new one near the clip.

 

[Tin Ho]

The American method is what I tried before. I pierced a small hole on the top of the sponged chamber right between the reservoir tank and sponged tank (but slightly toward the sponged tank). When the needle is inserted into the sponged chamber it goes right in between the plastic and the sponge. The needle can be 1.5 inch long (this is the reason that motivated me in trying this refill method). Before injecting ink you need to flip the cartridge 90 degrees (actually 75 - 85 degree is preferred) and the reservoir tank should be at the bottom. When ink is injected it drops right into the reservoir tank through the hole between the two tanks. This is done by the gravity. The needle tip is not pointing into or inside the reservoir tank. This is the part people can not understand how it would work.

I joked about the name of this method and called it American Method. I did not mean to want a credit for it. I just wanted to say it is an alternative method and you can use a 1.5 inch needle. Besides, you do not need to pierce through the sponge right at the sensitive area above the ink outlet. It is a method that worked for me but you probably need to practice to get the quirks out. I found that if you bend the tip of the needle a little it will make this refill method really work smoothly. With a bent needle you have to turn the needle so that the tip points toward the hole between the two tanks pointing into the reservoir tank.

I hope to find some time to try it again. I prefer the conventional method of filling ink from the top of the reservoir tank still. It is much faster for me. But it is a method that has its issues. I hope to take some pictures when I try it again with a bent needle. You can try it too, can't you?

 

[pharmacist]

Tin Ho,

What about the air breathing hole, does this method impair the pressure balancing inside the cartridge ?

 

[yupkime]

After I get my long needles later this week I will post some pictures of the process the best I can although there shouldn't be any surprises.

But there is no problem with the pressure as far as I can tell as long as the hole is on the sponge side. I have had a junk cartridge refilled with water sitting out with the hole uncovered for a week now and no leaking or dripping at all.

But it is easy to cover up with tape if need be if you just want to make sure.
Again, hopefully with the longer needle it will easy to fill with no risk to the sponge and the outlet hole.

The needle going past the exit outlet hole and possibly moving the sponge with the German method is what makes me want to see this other method work just as well.

If nobody posts pictures by next weekend then I should be able to post mine.

 

[NickC]

I a little bemussed by the various obscure methods for filling these cartridges, it don't arf seem a lot of fuss.

Can someone tell me what is wrong with the below method of refilling a CLI-8 / PGI-5 cartridges, which I have just tried on a couple of cartridges:

1). Fit original ink outlet cover with elastic band to hold in place
2). Peel off top plastic label from resovoir end cartridge only (leave label on sponge end in place to prevent opening of air holes)
3). Dig out ball from original filling hole, clean-out hole (to allow airtight seal)
4). Hold cartridge at 45deg or so with the sponge-end/top-side upwards, refill through original hole (this still leaves a small air-gap)
5). Bung up hole with soft rubber stopper, apply small patch of Gaffer tape over the stopper hole for extra air leak protection
6). Turn cartridge upright, remove ink outlet cover, ensure that no ink drips from outlet hole

Am I missing something that doesn't work here, is something going to go wrong?


Nick

 

[pharmacist]

NickC,

there is nothing wrong with the method, but watch out when the rubber stopper does not close well, the chances are high that after a few days you will end up with a empty cartridge inside your cartridge.

There are many topics on this forum discussing the best way to have really airtight seal to close the hole and many problems concerning plugs that seems to close very well but actually it was leaking air very slowly not discovered only after a week or so......

Something else: most people forget to milk the cartridge after refilling with the traditional method you mentioned. If this very important step is not done, chances are high you will end up with banding in your prints, because the traditional method tends to oversaturate the sponge. Canon's design actually yields a negative pressure inside the sponge.

Maybe I'm a bit biased by the German Durchstich method -because this method overcomes both problems in a very elegant way- but there is something else: the esthetic reason why refilling using the German Durchstich method is preferable because the cartridge is not mutilated with ugly plugs and tape or globs of glue on top of it. There are so many problems with plugs or attempts to have a decent seal to close the refill hole creating a whole bible of topics about this problem have been written by so many people...

Only one practical problem with the German Durchstichmethod: the availability of sharp long needles in some area's in the world...

 

[stratman]

Only one practical problem with the German Durchstichmethod: the availability of sharp long needles in some area's in the world...

Criminy, I was hoping the sharp needle dogma was over!

Blunt needles work perfectly.

A needle 50mm/2inches or longer, sharp or blunt works perfectly for the Durchstich method. The only issue is whether you can get a long enough needle.

Just like the pitfalls with the top stopper method, there are more pitfalls using a sharp needle versus a blunt one - a small increased risk of self injury and damaging the interior of the cartridge.

In the end, all of these methods work and it is personal choice which way to go.


BTW, I have purged cartridges using the traditional hole on top of the cartridge, just like the one made for the traditional refilling method. The holes have been sealed with hot glue and nary a leak... so far. The German method IS easier to refill in all respects but if you purge and use a traditional top hole then you are at almost the same risk for malfunction due to air leaks as the traditional refilling method folks (can get an air leak but still less likely to fail because you are not removing the plug and resealing for every refill - only when purging).
However, there is a method or purging without tapping a new hole that has been discussed in this forum. Maybe I'll try it on future cartridges.

 

[pharmacist]

Stratman,

some people really want these sharp needles. I think the only problem with blunt needles is to pierce through the area of the ink outlet felt (very dense). I presume you can use a sharp sewing needle to pierce through this dense material and afterwards using a blunt needle. Hobbicolors refill needles are long enough and can be used for the German Durchstich method.