Looking at the new Canon PRO-300

[The Hat]

So your statement that it will cause problems with aftermarket inks is no longer a universal truth that some just somehow might end up believing.

@mikling, you’re a great man at Surmising about what I and others say, but if you carefully read again to what I said, you’ll find its your Quote that is incorrect, I also said who needs a "Densitometer", because in the wrong hands a user can get completely frustrated.

For most people visiting this site, it will likely be of little value, but imagine an aftermarket inkset that you don't have to futz around color profiles, adjustments etc, Isn't that what real people want?

No aftermarket inset has achieved anything close to OEM inks or profiles, but you will of course tells us different, yes most of your inks are good but not all of them are quite there yet, I wish you luck with your endeavours because I like most others want an ink supplier that tries to go the extra mile.. But no cigar just yet..

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I must admit I have reservations about this explanation, yes - there are psycho-acoustic effects but transferring those into the visual area does not explain much , specifically not if and why this is really happening -

it is better able to produce more distinct fine steps in color tone that allows our senses to better separate objects in difficult situations.

This appears to be some pre-print image enhancement - local contrast adjustment activity - either in the driver or in the program you print from .

 

[mikling]

I must admit I have reservations about this explanation, yes - there are psycho-acoustic effects but transferring those into the visual area does not explain much , specifically not if and why this is really happening -

This appears to be some pre-print image enhancement - local contrast adjustment activity - either in the driver or in the program you print from .

Psycho - is mind related. It is not in the sense as many think because they have not experienced it. Layering is NOT mind related. But the sense is. Obviuously you don't have a system resolving enough.

I've tested all the K3 machines in detail. P800, 3880, R2880, P600, R3000. That is how their IQ falls in line. All printed with identical images and settings with no preprint enhancement. Why do you think Epson makes a fine art printer as opposed to something like the P400. What is the difference? Let's explain that.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

Layering is NOT mind related. But the sense is. Obviuously you don't have a system resolving enough.

Do you have any other internet link explaining this 'Layering' in more detail ?

Why do you think Epson makes a fine art printer as opposed to something like the P400. What is the difference?

Since you apparently did very in depth testing of these printers are there any printouts to compare which you can share with us ?

 

[palombian]

Do you have any other internet link explaining this 'Layering' in more detail ?



Since you apparently did very in depth testing of these printers are there any printouts to compare which you can share with us ?

Maybe "Fine Art" is something between the ears where more down-to-earth people "are not ready for" (as @mikling hinted last Sunday).

On this forum we try - with limited tools indeed, but repeatable by almost everyone - to measure and to compare.
By searching inks, papers, printers and their settings we try to find a compromise between cost and performance.
It can't be denied that measurable values as gamut and black levels are an essential ingredient for good prints.
As refillers it is reasonable to stop there.

OTH you need some - less measurable - passion to be motivated to search for the best solution .

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

You think I should be afraid of an emerging printing addiction ?

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

based on all those likes I'm apparently at risk, I'll take some Corona like printer distancing measures - only one printer per room or alike.

 

[stratman]

Corona like printer distancing measures - only one printer per room or alike.

Somebody asked the guy in charge of Coronavirus management in the US, Dr. Fauci, if they could have sex with strangers in the midst of quarantine. He said yes, just wear a mask and don't breathe on each other. But you still couldn't go eat at a restaurant outdoors or go on the beach. (I kid you not)

So I think it might be ok if there is more than one printer in a room as long at the paper output trays do not face each other or are at least six feet apart. (I kid)

 

[nertog]

Psycho - is mind related. It is not in the sense as many think because they have not experienced it. Layering is NOT mind related. But the sense is. Obviuously you don't have a system resolving enough.

I've tested all the K3 machines in detail. P800, 3880, R2880, P600, R3000. That is how their IQ falls in line. All printed with identical images and settings with no preprint enhancement. Why do you think Epson makes a fine art printer as opposed to something like the P400. What is the difference? Let's explain that.

Interesting thoughts.

Here are mine: the differences you are seeing are caused by the dithering algorithm and the ink curves. The Epson R3000, for example, prints grainier and a bit coarser than the Epson 1500W (same inks, same paper), even though the R3000 has more ink channels. The 1500W, however, has a much more pronounced dithering pattern that looks like microbanding. A RIP, such as Printfab, shows this very clearly as it has customizable dithering and ink curve generation settings.

I guess sharpness, dithering pattern and the visibility of dots have to be carefully balanced and I guess each printer generation tries to find a better balance between those parameters. Interesting that the old R2880 scores better than the P600 (at least in your eyes)

Might this be the "layering" you are talking about? We know that resolution, bit depth and dot size did not change significantly. I assume dot placement accuracy did neither.

 

[Ink stained Fingers]

I think looking to a printout of color patches, to the dithering pattern could be a good idea. First taking a macro high res photo shot e.g. of a 5x5mm patch and analyzing it - the luminance varation, the color variation on pixel level by doing some statistical analysis, doing a Fourier transform to look for spatial repitions , banding etc, doing this for saturated and less saturated colors, doing this for different driver settings/print quality levels , doding that for another printer model for comparison and doing a visual assessment - smoothness, uniformity - comparing it with the calculated numbers to see whether there is any congruence between the perceived and the calculated findings.