Is clogging an issue changing from pigment to dye based ink?

[slocumeddie]

A careful reading of all 23 reviews (takes 5 minutes), will disclose that many reviewers were pleased with the printer. The most common complaint mentioned was high ink consumption(not a top concern for us refillers).

If you own and have used this printer(ala MIKLING), then your comments have some validity. Otherwise, you are just blowing hot air...........uh, sorry.....I meant to say......giving your opinion.....

 

[Tin Ho]

Thank you for your comment about those user reviews. I don't think Canon ever made a really bad printer. However, if there are 3 (out of 23) who rated MP980 a 5 star and 12 of them rated it a 1, 2 and 3 stars (6 rated it a 1 star) then it is fair to question if it is really a must have printer because of its superiority. Sorry, I am looking at it in a different angle than yours.

What about MP960 and MP970 that give 7 ink tanks? I think they are better color printers than MP980/MP990. The 980/990 while decent in colors are better monochrome printers. The PC and PM ink used by 960/970 makes them better color photo printers than printers that use only CMYK ink. I have not checked out the reviews for 960/970 yet.

 

[Tin Ho]

I think Mikling said he has one. So his words definitely have some validity. But he sells gray ink for the printer. So he could be blowing hot air balloon too. The user reviews have some credibility too. I have seen a few at work but I do not have one myself. I am not bashing the printer based on my own use of one. What I wanted to find out is if the gray ink really cures a color balance problem. Are there any complaints about the color balance problem among printers that use only CMYK ink? If it is an issue commonly recognized and the gray ink really fixes it I'll agree that it is a must have printer. I wonder why Canon did not advertize the printer with this feature. They are actually giving it away cheap. I wanted to find out what does the gray ink do other than giving better monochrome prints. I don't need hot air balloon.

The HAT did not say he has one. I am not sure why he is pumping (cold) air too. He likes it.

 

[The Hat]

Tin HoI think Mikling said he has one. So his words definitely have some validity.
But he sells gray ink for the printer. So he could be blowing hot air balloon too.

I think these words are over the top and so unfair to a guy who does sell inks
and a lot more but thats not his motive for saying what he said here.

Just try reading this if you are still sceptical about his motives.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=45276#p45276

Tin Ho The HAT did not say he has one. I am not sure why he is pumping (cold) air too. He likes it.

As for me not owning a 980/990 thats got nothing to do with it at all,
I dont run marathons but does mean I cant comment or compliment someone that does.

I have just gotten myself another printer so doesnt rule out me getting one of the above.
Why cant we just put this discussion to bed and retire to our respective corners ok..

 

[Tin Ho]

The HAT, I don't feel like to drag on the talk either. I am not getting the answer I wanted. I thought it is a new generation of technology from Canon that adding the gray ink makes a huge leap forward in getting better color photos. I am disappointed that the discussion is steered into debating whether MP980/990 is a good printer or not. The printer apparently got not so good reviews by users. I don't believe it is any better (or worse I should say) than the old ip5000 class of printers. It seems to be just a printer that does a better job in monochrome job as simple as that. You can say I am skeptical and I always filter words blown along with dust. I am sorry that I spoke it out loud. You certainly are entitled to different opinions. No question about it.

Yeah, I saw that you have a Pro9500 that uses a gray pigment ink. I would love to hear if it contributes significantly in color balance of your print. I am disappointed that you did not share that with me. It is an interesting subject how it works and why we must try it to get better colors. I guarantee you that I will not slap you for saying something I don't agree with.

I am down sizing. I am getting rid of spare printers. The days of buying cheap (new, refurbished and used) printers are over for me. I am giving away some unused printers complete with unused OEM cartridges to kids for their achievement of graduating from their classes. I believe Canon made no technology advance ever since printers with CLI-8 cartridges were released. I found no evidence any of the latest printer (except your Pro9500) is different nor better in the print head technology. I am keeping two that I am happy with and there is no need of buying any more of new breed of printers that are designed to empty your pocket.

 

[mikling]

I apologize for this but unfortunately the truth needs to be told. Just like we know not using OEM ink won't make our printers explode!

For the naysayers, like Tin Ho, I would recommend they read the following carefully.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/2008_Meet_Developers/mp980/index.html

It is obvious that if the reviewers were indicating that the gray inks are not required, then they were w r o n g.
I wish not to hear that I am selling Canon printers because you will see that I also favor Epson printers as well. For myself there is a time and place for each.

The unfortunate part is that I discovered this little gem of a printer BEFORE I stumbled upon the above link. Some may claim otherwise. Still, my experience of using this printer in an advanced fashion and not just printing text confirms the claims of the Canon engineers.

Now regarding my sale of inks, if I really favored pushing inks I would have said that one should abandon CMYK printers and should only be using 6 or 8 color photo printers. Users of these printers know that the LC and LM colors are used profusely more than then C and M. This would have resulted in more sales. So while I might sell inks, please give me the benefit of assuming that I am objective and honest rather dismissing any comment I make that indicates that I have an ulterior motive.

Now let's get a grip on reality. First, when a reviewerr claims that a printer drinks ink? Just how is that claim made? What process was done? Do bear in mind that the CLI-221 is smaller than prior cartridges. That in itself will make it appear to consume its contents sooner thus giving an impression that it drinks ink...because the chip says the cartridge is low and the volume of ink contained is less. Now, the Hat brings up an excellent point, When one is not refilling, and purchasing OEM cartridges, ink costs are high and users become sensitive to this aspect. Refillers on the other hand, like most people on this board, refill their cartridges for likely less than a $1 easily and some more likely around $0.30 to $0.50 per cartridge. So what if a printer consumes 10% more ink if the printed image is better. Now I would pose a question. If you could improve the printed picture for less than a penny or even two more per print, is it worth it? I think most would think so.

Tin Ho, please read the final sentence in the discussion with the second engineer Edamura in the interview. " And, this gray ink benefits not only grayscale printing but also color printing because it is a crucial element for color photos, too. " qed ?

{ CRUCIAL ..1. decisive: most vital and of the greatest significance in determining an outcome

2. important: very important or significant ( informal ) }

My opinion of the printer was generated independent of reading the above link but surprisingly confirms the claims that the engineers made. The 980 et al are fine printers that are a cut above the 5 tank machines,..but only for those wanting a better machine. and for the prices quoted in this thread, one is acquiring a superior scanner and superior printing capability (possibly the most advanced dye ink printing at this time) at a very small premium. It is my opinion that the color tones chosen for the CLI-221 inkset was based on ultimately integrating the gray ink thus providing their top end machine the best performance.

So I ask that since for the asking prices of $99 or less I thought that I would point out to readers on this forum that at that price, they would be acquiring a little gem for that low price. I did not expect accusations that I was subjected to.

 

[inkadinkado]

To date I've bought two of these machines under their selling price for one machine, and I'm very happy with my purchase. Since I write "how to draw" books and sell them online, it is my intention to use these to the max for a high quality printing of my books. The books are mostly black and white printing and since I am an artist, I want the best tonal values possible for the best price. Until I get into a much higher volume of printing needs, these printers will last me most likely for a very long time. I am grateful to know about them and this forum for all the input I've received and learned about refilling. Thanks to all.

 

[The Hat]

Tin Ho Yeah, I saw that you have a Pro9500 that uses a gray pigment ink.
I would love to hear if it contributes significantly in color balance of your print.
I am disappointed that you did not share that with me.
It is an interesting subject how it works and why we must try it to get better colors.
I guarantee you that I will not slap you for saying something I don't agree with.

The 9500 is a new design from Canon its built like a tank (A lot of metal in it)
it has the extra black, photo black and grey + the usual photo magenta/cyan setup
with an added red and green just like the 9000 but thats all in has in common with the 9000 (red/green).

Its ten colours are used most of the time regardless of the kind of print that is being printed
which is surprising as one would expect the printer to be more discriminating and exact.

The print head is a new design also it doesnt suffer from the usual clogs that plagues
the dye ink printers and the cartridges are easy to refill + never need purging either.

It has the avantage of longevity of its prints just like its Epson brother has and can print
on just about any surface gloss, satin, matte, canvas, film but there are still certain surfaces
that the ink can be wiped straight off, so not quite all surfaces just yet.

I didnt get the printer for its photo qualities but it has not disappointed me with either
the colour or black and white photos and yes it does suffer from
some bronzing on certain gloss photo papers , which I avoid anyway.

Colour shifting has never being a problem on any of my printers with photos
because I use PhotoShop to tweak any problems out in tests before hand.
I use all the same colour inks on all my printers BCI-6, CLI-8, CLI-521 (I.S ink)
except the 9500 which uses pigment inks again (I.S. ink).

The only down side with the 9500 that I had found was its speed and cost,
its still retailing on this side of the pond for $1200 and thats with Canon discount.

Because it can print at near laser quality it tends to be slower than
any of my other Canon printers but it is certainly worth the wait.

Colour printing is not new to me so I find that these little printers are much more intriguing and
interesting that Commercial printing ever was and theres far more to come
out of these little beauties as their technology continually evolves.

I dont think most guys give the little printers much credit for the way that it interprets
and applies colours to their paper, because its not as black and white as they would like to think it is..

 

[Tin Ho]

The Hat:

Good info about your 9500 printer. Thank you. The price of 9500 here in the US a week ago during the Memorial Day (US holiday) weekend was $400 (or $500 I don't remember exactly). I don't really need one so the price did not motivate me. I have seen demo prints from 9500 before. They were impressive. I wondered if they were from heavily edited images or all pictures from a camera will be pretty much like that too. There were demo prints from Pro9000 that were very impressive too. There were demo prints from many Epson and HP printers as well. All were very impressive. I really don't remember how much better pigment based ink printers were. I spent less than 3 seconds to see each of those prints. I wasn't shopping for a printer. That's why.

I feel the same as you do that color shift of my photo printers has not been an issue to me. Mr Edamura, probably the chief developer of MP980 at Canon, in the Canon's web page provided by Mikling said: "In color mode moderate color shifts are hardly discernible to the eye." This is the key words of the whole web page. It was the monochrome mode that motivated Canon to add the gray ink and produced the MP980. Very interesting information. It really proved my point that the gray ink hardly has anything to do with color balance in color mode. The developer added it for the monochrome mode of the printer.

Mikling:

I am afraid that you are quoting Mr. Edemura's words out of context. The web page actually said the gray ink was added because Canon did not have a printer (except Pro9500 as I see it) that has a good monochrome capability. So they added a gray ink and produced the MP980. This is what Mr Edamura said:

"In color mode moderate color shifts are hardly discernible to the eye. In grayscale mode, however, even a slight color shift stands out. So, we have adopted the gray ink as a solution. With a combination of the gray ink and photo black ink, we can essentially prevent color shifts now."

Well, he did say the words you quoted. But he showed only a black and white photo to show how the car in it did not have a slight color tint in it. He did not provide any photo to demonstrate how the gray ink improves the color mode. Other than the words you quoted the entire web page pretty much focused on how the gray ink made the MP980 a great monochrome printer. No other words were said to emphasized in the improvement in the color mode.

Please understand that I am not really arguing if MP980 is a good or bad printer. I did refer to the reviews which rated the printer poorly. I can agree that those reviews do not really represent too much about the truth. There is no need that we further debate about MP980 a good or bad printer. All I wanted to clarify is if the gray ink has anything to do to the color balance issue you mentioned. And if it does plays a crucial roll in the color photo quality I would like to know why and see reports about this remarkable advance for color photo printing. This is a technical subject that we all will benefit from a clarification. In other words, do we need to replace our existing printers with one that includes a gray ink tank? I'll say we do if it does make a revolutionary difference in color mode. Otherwise I'll say no unless I care about the monochrome mode.

 

[Tin Ho]

The books are mostly black and white printing and since I am an artist, I want the best tonal values possible for the best price.

I am sure you got the right printers for the right job for you. Congrats. The price for them are so good.