IP5200 refill, not happy with image quality

[Photofan1986]

Some of you know I've recently bought a second hand IP5200, which was loaded with almost full OEM carts. Print quality was great. But I decided to refill using octoinkjet inks and top fill method. And that's when my problems began.
I got a couple of spare carts I bought on ebay. I purged them thoroughly and even used Pharmacist's cleaning solution. Then I dried the carts, and filled them properly using top fill method.

The problem I am getting is stripes/lines in the pictures. Colour balance is more or less ok, but printing "finesse" is low. And that is with the exact same settings as with the OEM carts.
Just to make sure, I performed a cleaning cycle, and even a deep cleaning, but the results did not get better. And at last, I put the OEM carts back into the printer, and voilà, quality was back as original.

I suspected that something was wrong with my carts. So I refilled another set of cleaned cart, and got the same results (even a little worse, actually). I was suspecting bad ink flow, and that probably IS the culprit, but I really don't see what I could be doing wrong.

So after flushing the carts with distilled water (and then I tried Pharmacist's solution), I blew into the top refill hole to remove the water. When I started refilling, ink smoothly and rapidly saturated the sponge. But I was suspecting that maybe by blowing into the sponge, I introduced some unwanted air inside. Could that be causing the inadequate ink flow?

So I tried another solution, I washed the cart again using Pharmacist's solution and shook it vigorously until almost no water was inside the sponge. I let it dry overnight, and tried to refill today. Though luck, ink won't flow into the sponge.

So I really don't know at the end of the day. IQ seems sub par, and I know this is due to the carts, and not the printhead, as with the original oem carts, I get great results. But I tried everything I could think of to get proper ink flow, but it seems it's not sufficient.
Do I have unrealistic expectations or am I doing something wrong? I'm really about to give up, and get back to oem crazy expensive carts, because I'm not ready to sacrifice quality.
My last thought is that I think vacuum filling would give me similar results to Canon oem quality, as it is the only one that uses the same procedure, and is not introducing any air into the cart. But that method seems like a mess if you don't have the proper tools.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[The Hat]

When you’re having print issues (Poor quality) there’s no point in portioning blame to any one thing when you’re not sure of anything at all. (Cul-de-sac)

You need to look at it from the other side, like what’s working correctly and what’s not, you know your printer and heads are good when using OEM inks which is the a bench mark your aiming for, so you need to start by eliminating what you know is working properly and take it from there. (One thing at a time)

Here are several test prints for you to use (1) is just colour bars going across the sheet in the print head travel direction (2) is also colour bars this time going down the sheet in the opposite direction and (3) is a colour test chart for each ink colour which should show up one or more of the problem areas quicker.

Take your time and try to enjoy your trouble shooting it can be very rewarding to solve the problems yourself so please remember Patients is the key word here and it will reward you with the success you’re trying to achieve. (The obvious tends to be quite invisible)
Click to Enlarge.

 

[Smile]

My last thought is that I think vacuum filling would give me similar results to Canon oem quality, as it is the only one that uses the same procedure, and is not introducing any air into the cart. But that method seems like a mess if you don't have the proper tools.

I use vacuum fill, and this method is the only one that works for me. A mess, well maybe but I can fill even 1 by 1 carts the only mess is on my hands and wasted ink.
Other than that I can't get other guaranteed to work method.

Good vacuum pump is expensive so I made my own mod
http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/car-tire-pump-mod-to-vacuum-pump.1968/#post-13514

But now I use dedicated vacuum sealer by lava for this, expensive but works a treat, takes 10sec to pull vacuum required to fill a cart.

 

[Photofan1986]

Thanks for your insight. I keep wondering what I could be doing wrong, as I am probably doing something wrong.

How important it is to have a perfectly dry cart before refilling? Because I wonder if blowing into the cart didn't inject unwanted air into the cart. But as I wanted to go fast, I did not dry the carts properly, and instead just blowed a ton into them.
Maybe the "lines" or streaks I am seeing are micro droplets of water that appear as "transparent ink" on the paper. Is this possible?

 

[stratman]

How important it is to have a perfectly dry cart before refilling? Because I wonder if blowing into the cart didn't inject unwanted air into the cart. But as I wanted to go fast, I did not dry the carts properly, and instead just blowed a ton into them.
Maybe the "lines" or streaks I am seeing are micro droplets of water that appear as "transparent ink" on the paper. Is this possible?

Perfectly dry sponges in the carts may actually inhibit rapid and smooth uptake of ink when refilling. Letting the cartridges sit for a period of time (hours?, days?) should let ink equilibrate in the dry sponge. I have refilled both bone dry and still moist sponged cartridges following a purge and they have all worked in the end.

Unless your blowing into the cartridges have dislodged a sponge(s) from its proper positionor you created an air channel between the spongeless and sponged sides of the cartridge, then I doubt blowing is the cause of your issue.

Here are some tips and questions:

1) Flush any cartridge that you get from someone else or has been sitting around unused. Bacteria/mold/dried ink may inhibit smooth ink flow during printing. The following link has examples of how to flush a cartridge as well as forum member ghwellsjr's elegantly simple method of removing most residual water, which is all you may need unless you are printing important images. EDITED to include link! http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/purging-cli-521-pg-520.5218/#post-37728

2) Residual water in the sponge will dilute ink but may or may not produce acceptable printing per individual preference. Ink is mostly water and should not cause your issues unless you are doing things that you have not explained yet.

3) If you want to maximize sponge function with your flushed old cartridges then you may consider forum member Pharmacist's conditioning solution: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/cleaning-solution-the-ultimate-test.5296/


4) Only use OEM Canon cartridges. Anything else will never perform as well though it aftermarkets can perform well enough for some people. Why gamble. Use Canon OEM only.

5) If any seal of the top fill method that is not 100% air tight will cause ink flow problems. Make sure top filled cartridges are air tight sealed.

6) Old or contaminated inks can cause printing problems. Storage conditions of the ink can precipitate problems. (pun intended) How old are your inks and how do you store them?


Since OEM new cartridges work the issue is either your refilling technique or the used cartridges you purchased or both. A detailed explanation of your cartridges and your technique may be helpful to pinpoint the cause(s) of your printing problem.

 

[Ant]

Initially I had problems with my 226 oem carts after I had flushed them and it was cured by gently blowing into the top of the filled cartridge vent hole matrix till a drop of ink came out of the outlet port of the cartridge. I remember blowing into the cartridges vent hole before filling them with new ink after I had flushed them and allowed them to dry, I managed to blow out a lot of residual water before I attempted to refill.
Stratmans comments/guidance makes a lot of sense to me but I will add that doing too many things to fix the problem in a small space of time will just confuse you and frustrate you, patience is the key I've found.

 

[PeterBJ]

The blowing gently into the vent mentioned by Ant to prime/saturate the sponge is also a good test for ink flow problems caused by the cartridge.

Try holding one of the perfectly working OEM cartridges over a sink or hold a piece of paper towel/kitchen paper under the ink outlet. Now blow gently into the vent, and note how little effort it takes to expel a drop of ink or two. Now do the same test with one of the refilled cartridges. If you need to blow harder to expel a drop of ink, something is wrong with that cartridge.

The lighter stripes in the uploaded sheep test picture look cyan to me. As blue is made from printing both cyan and magenta, this suggests to me that the refilled magenta cartridge could be the problem. Try replacing the refilled magenta cartridge with an OEM magenta cartridge, leaving the other refilled cartridges in place, and print the sheep image, and note if the stripes are now gone. The colour balance might change when using both refilled and new OEM cartridges, but the purpose of this test is to check for ink flow problems, not colour balance problems.

 

[Tudor]

@Photofan1986 :

Watch this video on how to flush the cartridge:

The clearing of the vent is very important! This is the vent of a BCI-6 cartridge, which is similar to cli-8/521/526 etc:

Notice the 2 holes (hemispheres)? After the cartridge is flushed and dried you can turn it upside down (vent down), tap it lightly on the table a couple of times and, keeping it in the same position, blow through the top fill hole (which is now facing down). Or better yet, use a syringe to do this. Water will come out. Repeat this a couple of times to make sure the vent is clear.

You can dry the cartridge like this: http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/draining-a-canon-cartridge.4760/

 

[Photofan1986]

Ok, so after having tested about every possibility regarding cleaning and drying the carts with no success, I took another empty and dried magenta cart, and filled it with ink without flushing it. Put it back into the printer, and surprise! No more lines or streaks.
There are two possible explanations: 1) during the flushing process with the syringe, the sponge is damaged. 2) in the area where I live, water is very hard, which could lead to fine particles getting into the way of the ink.
I'd be more inclined to solution 2, because many of you flush the carts the same way and have no problem.
But the strange thing is that I did use distilled water to flush the cart a last time. Maybe that wasn't enough.

Any idea?

 

[stratman]

Ok, so after having tested about every possibility regarding cleaning and drying the carts with no success, I took another empty and dried magenta cart, and filled it with ink without flushing it. Put it back into the printer, and surprise! No more lines or streaks.
There are two possible explanations: 1) during the flushing process with the syringe, the sponge is damaged. 2) in the area where I live, water is very hard, which could lead to fine particles getting into the way of the ink.
I'd be more inclined to solution 2, because many of you flush the carts the same way and have no problem.
But the strange thing is that I did use distilled water to flush the cart a last time. Maybe that wasn't enough.

Any idea?

Congratulations on resolving your issue.

It would seem your flushing technique, or something else not detailed in your posts, is the root cause. While you may be using a technique you read about, your implementation appears to be in question. You have not detailed your flushing and refilling procedures for me to more accurately determine what is the exact problem. I would suggest you check out the link I have finally added in my previous post (my apologies for not including it initially) on cartridge purging techniques. You may be a little too vigorous and the sponge(s) may not be properly seated which can cause a disconnect in the proper flow of ink. But this is only a guess based on incomplete info.

My recommendation is either use less pressure with the syringe on flushing or switch to a different flushing method altogether. Use of distilled water is an excellent decision. If the sponge(s) are unseated then lightly rap the bottom of the cartridge on a firm surface but NOT on the cylindrical ink exit port or else you risk deforming the plastic and the seal it makes with the print head. Since cartridges are cheap compared to replacement print heads for your printer, consider dumping the old cartridges and starting anew. If you are unable to flush properly then get a new cartridge and refill as long as possible. Octoinkjet sells relatively inexpensive flushed replacement cartridges IIRC. Better to keep your excellent printer going than worry over an easily replaceable cartridge.