IP5000 eighteen months later

[Trigger 37]

Here us a question for someone that may have much more experience with Printhead cleaning. At this thread has shown, many people attempt all kinds of cleaning processes on printheads. Some work and some don't. I have one printhead that used to work rather good and I did not print color documents on it for 6 months,... only black text. Now the colors are getting really bad so I have used every bit of experience and cleaning technique I know of,... and nothing is helping. So the question is,... "If the path to a color nozzles gets blocked by dried ink and new ink (or cleaning solution) can't get to the nozzles, if we print with them such as a nozzle check pattern and some nozzles don't print, no matter how much cleaning,...does this mean that individual nozzle resistor elements can get burned out. If they are firing and there is no wet cool liquid inside of the nozzle, it seem logical that they would over heat and burn.

This could explain what happens to really bad clogs. I have had many other printheads that seamed clogged and have come back to life with very basic cleaning, or with medium cleaning. But then there are the really bad ones that won't come back at all, no matter how much cleaning or how much soaking.

It seems the only way to successfully test an individual nozzles is to have it print a "DOT" or not. My typical techniques are;-----First print a nozzle check pattern so you have a reference to start with.

1. Flush the head under strong sink water flow,.. top and bottom
2. Soak the head in 3/16" Windex or cleaning solution (heated to 140 degrees)
3. Force hot solution through the printhead using syringe and short straw over the filter screens and
watch the soltuion spray out of the bottom nozzles. Repeat this 5-6 times.
4. Soak the head in same solution overnight,.. maybe 2-3 nights
5. Dry the printhead with compressed air to eliminate all solution anywhere
6. Install in printer with Cleaning carts and run several deep cleaning cycles to prime the head
7. Print 1/2 sheet using a 3 color or 4 color test image (depends on what colors were clogged)
8. Print a nozzle check pattern and examine using a 10x magnifier. Look at and count each nozzle for each color.
9 Repeat 7-8-9 and look to see if any nozzle that was clogged before has now come back to life.
10. If there is any success, the clogs are breaking up. If not, ... it may be time to give up.

Remember, part of the problem is always the ink carts, the purge unit, and the contacts on the Printhead and carriage assembly. Bad ink flow anywhere in the path will give similar results.

My orginal question is wheather or not an individual nozzle(s) can burn out. On this current printhead, there are 512 nozzles for Cyan and 512 for Magenta and 256 for Yellow. The 512 are divided into two rows of 256 so there are 5 rows of nozzles, 256 in each row. In addition, each row of 256 is split side by side into 128 nozzles. When you see color bands print that look like Hens teeth, this tells you that one bank of 128 nozzles is not firing or at least not all of them are firing.

IF the answer is that we are burning out individual nozzles, then we need to re-think the cleaning and testing process to prevent this. For example, when I first got my printers and every now and then printed a nozzle check pattern, I didn't look at it very close,... so if one or two nozzles weren't printing I did not notice. However, if you let this small clog continue I'm sure it will build up. Cleaning cycles tend to break these small clogs up, but many of us have been warned so many times about how much ink is used up in a cleaning cycle, we tend not to do it. We also don't want to fill up the waste ink pads as everyone knows this is a lot of work to fix. So what is the solution.... I think it is going to be the use of cleaning solution ink carts every now and then. Several passes printing a 1/2 page of a test image and then the close examination of the nozzle test will tell you how good or bad the printhead it.

I'm going to try and contact Canon to see if they will give my any anwers about burning out individual nozzles.

 

[mikling]

Not every printing problem that looks to be a clog on the surface is necessarily a clog problem. The "clog" term is too often used by some to describe any problem that produces a bad quality output. While DUE DILIGENCE to test that possibility that it is a clog and cleaning is warranted one should not put all faith in that it is always a clog and act likewise. There are many failure modes in something as complex as a high density Canon printer head and while I do not know exactly how to determine exactly what they are, I do know that heads do fail and not necessarily always from clogging or its effects but from other factors such as wear, defects and misuse as well. I was once equally eager to flush and clean every head that suffered a problem thinking it was a panacea. Now I check the history, printing patterns and maintenance habits of the user before deciding if it's worth the potential negative result. Sometimes, you can do everything correct and still suffer a printhead failure. Life's like that.

In personally speaking with Canon support, I found they are very happy to supply you with a free replacement head during the warranty period if the first round of cleaning and wetting with Qtips doesn't work and sell you one when the warranty terminates.

 

[Trigger 37]

mikling,... thanks for your info. I guess I had to convince myself the hard way. I agree with you about Canon, as they did replace the printhead on my iP6600D as it was a refurbished printer and the printhead was DOA.

I notice that you have a large collection Epson Printers and HP printers. Can you give me your opinion on the hardware quality of both compaired to Canon. I'm asking about how difficult or easy these printer are to repair or service. My small business is expanded from just Canon printers to include Epson and HP. Over the years I have studied just about every printer that Canon has made and I have repaired all of the i series printers and many of the F series all in one, as well as the MP7XX series. I find them designed so they could be serviced,... but not that easily. The parts are strong and seem to take all the wear that anyone could put on them. One of the weak links is the Printhead and the Purge unit.

I would greatly appreciate any advice you can provide on Epson or HP. I find the service manuals for both of these much better than that of Canon. HP has mostly the Ink combined with the printhead, and the good thing about that is there is after market remanufactured printhead at reasonable prices and they are refillable. There are some printers like the HP Officejet 71xx series that have separate ink tanks and they have a separate printhead for each color. This makes it very expensive to even look at that series of printers. I could never afford to repair one that need printheads.

Again, any information you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. If you want, just email me your response rather than post it. Thanks in advance.

 

[mikling]

Quick and dirty.....Epson makes some nice hardware but are NOT suited for the general population that really are light duty users... too many issues crop up with low duty use and this is exacerbated by the abundance of poorly made compatible cartridges that are in abundant supply. Some models have had design errors and should be watched for. However, some models are made to go the distance if they are used a lot and the user knows how to equip them to do so. Epson fans know exactly why they are buying an Epson, they need no convincing and are willing to put up with the weaknesses and they surely exist. Forget the older machines, unless they are wide carriage. An older wide carriage properly converted to a CISS is still very desirable by a lot of not well off amateur photographers. Why? because Epson was the first to offer true photo quality early on.

HP, the older HPs are workhorses but some are too old and slow and resolution is lacking. The sweet point is the generation that used the HP56,57,58,59 cartridges. These have adequate capacity, fast enough, high res enough and are easily refillable and resettable. Why this generation? because after that this consumer line splintered into remaining at this quality with the same capacity cartridges with higher resolution but not resettable counters and into a lower cost line with small capacity cartridges and lower printer build quality and not resettable as well. Forget the lower cost line, in the used market, they're worthless and nobody wants them.

Quick, dirty and full of holes to shoot into.

 

[Trigger 37]

mikling,.... Thanks a million for your insite. I'll search for the model numbers that use the 56, xx ink carts.

Could you give me an example of the split model number for the newer printers. I want to know which ones have the counters that can't be reset. Are these the new Deskjets, Officejet, ???

Thanks again for all your information. By the way I have already aquired an Epson C84, C86, CX4600, and the R340. To gain experience in different styles of printers I decided to get some from different applications. I had read somewhere in a Photographer's book that the C84 or C86 were good photo quality. The CX4600 was a mistake, it was supposed to be a CX6600 so I got burned a little bit there. The R340 is not as good as the R380 but it is what was available.

You mentioned that some of the compatible epson ink carts are no good. Can you tell me who makes a good one?

Thanks again.

 

[mikling]

Epson makes a good cartridge dare I say the best?

Refill the originals if you are a light user. There is actually less to go wrong than when refilling a Canon. Egads!!!! what did I say. Bite my tongue you naysayers and Epson haters would say. But have you tried this? http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/files/Epson Instructions 2.pdf.pdf

The R340 is the same engine as the R200,210,220,230,300,320.350, RX500,600,620. They get snapped up in the used market as they also do DVDs ( except RX) and all can have outboard ink waste bottles easily adapted and perform well with a good CISS. The print quality is not the best but very decent if photos are what you are after.

If you find yourself refilling too often, then acquire a second set of empty originals or two or more. Still too much work, get a set of refillables....then consider a CISS if you need the capacity. The originals are very highly recommended for refilling. When they are out of the printer, they are completely sealed they have a mechanical sealing valve built internally and venting is through a filter!! This is unlike the integrated sponge types like the Hp etc and Canons which require that you make a point of sealing the vents. This allows building up a number of sets and not worrying about drying out.

You can refill as many times as you wish and as long as you reseal properly each time, you will have not problems and no flushing etc is required.

As to the HP, Hp made too many different models to list. When you find a model, just check what carts are needed.

OK, I will stop this thread as it is taking a different course from the initial thread which was about a Canon problem. Some may interpret this as an opportunity to place a negative on Canon and this is not so. So if you wish other info, please start another thread and the discussion can proceed from there.

 

[Trigger 37]

Jackson, I'm sorry I kidnapped this thread for my own questions. I was hoping by continuing the posts that you would provide some more feedback on the outcome of your effort. We are all very interested, even if they are not the results we all hoped for.

Please add a few comments about what you were doing and how you were doing it in cleaning the carts and running the cleaning carts that ended up with no color from any jet. I talked to Canon about this and they agreed that one individual nozzles good "Fuse" and fail, but it is not likely that everyone of them would go bad at once. If they did, then it could have been some step in your cleaning process. I had mentioned before that if the printhead does not get primed via deep cleaning cycles and then to attempt to print a full sheet, this can damage the printhead. It is basically trying to print with no ink in the printhead. The nozzles expect to heat up the ink to form a bubble and produce the Jet. If there is no ink, the heat has no place to go and if repeated for many lines and 1/2 half a page,... it's burn "Fuse" time.

So, as I said earlier, clean the contacts to see if that is what is causing the printhead not to print. Prime the head with ink by doing deep cleaning cycles, and then only print the nozzle check.

IF it still fails, please let us know more than what you said in your last post. We need to know what did this.

 

[jackson]

I ordered and received a new iP5000 printhead (eBay) - the result is that I have a bran new, handy-dandy, cartridge storage unit - it aint no use for anything else..and the hassle of returning it to the US with the customs nonsense that I have to put up with from the Canadians isn't worth it -- and I don't believe it's defective anyway.
I got two fair nozzle checks, an un-usable alignment check and progressively worse nozzle checks.
Either the new head is bad (I had doubts about the old one being bad) or whatever is causing the problem back in the innards of the printer is still there.
To add insult to injury I have a 2.5 year old iP3000 which also quit.
Luckily I have a ten year old HP which is working like a champ (cost $4.99 plus tax at Value Village).

 

[Trigger 37]

Jackson,... The symptoms tell me there is noting wrong with this printhead. I've seen this problem over and over again. There is insufficient ink getting to the printhead. So where is the problem. Number one it could be the ink carts but you keep telling us these are new and there for must be good. You may have gotten them out of a box and therefore you call them new,... but they could have been on a shelf for 4 years,... and therefore could almost be dried out. Number two,... it could be a bad purge unit that is not capable of sucking the ink out of the ink carts into the printhead just to prime them good enough. If there is any kind of air bubble or open space in the printhead nozzles, even if there is ink to fire for 3 or more lines on even one good nozzles test, as soon as the nozzles fire, they need a continuous flow of ink through the entire path,... or they will create a air gap as they fire the nozzles and there is no micro ink drop to replace the last one,... so the next one won't print. If the purge tube is clogged after years of cleaning the printheads, then it can't suck enough ink out of the ink carts to prime the heads, and you will get a gradual decay of the print lines.

If you have ink to refill any cart, then purge the cart of all old ink by running tap water through the hole where you would add new ink. Let it force all the old ink out of the cart through the bottom exit hole and out of the air breather hole. Get all the old ink out. Flush the pad in the bottom exit hole with clean water. Use an air compressor to force all the water out of the cart and then let it dry overnight. Then refill it with new ink. Once it is full, do the drop test to see how it flows. With the bottom un capped and the fill hole open the ink cart should let one drop of ink fall every 4 seconds into your sink. If it does not do this try starting it by blowing on the air breather hole and some ink will fall. It should continue to fall at the correct rate if the ink cart is no longer clogged. This is the exact flow you would get if you bought a new Canon ink cart, removed the seal over the air breather and the bottom cap and if you started the flow by blowing into the air breather hole.

If you get a cart to do this, re-install it into the printer and run a deep cleaning cycle and then a nozzle check. Run several nozzle checks to prove you have that color primed and printing OK. If this works, repeat the process for the other colors. If it does not work. Take the printer apart and get at the purge unit and compeletly clean it and all the tubes.

If the printhead is bad it would not have printed anything,... and there is no way someone would ship you a printhead that is clogged. If it printed a couple of good nozzle test,... you know it is good. It is your cheap ink carts, or cheap ink, or bad purge unit, etc. Find some real Canon ink carts and use them. The other vendor carts are just junk and are a waste of time and ink.

I will make an outlandish statement,.... 95% of all clogged printheads are the result of defective, dried up, empty, or clogged ink carts. Once they stop the flow of ink to the printhead nozzles, then the nozzles can begin to clog via drying very small amount of residue ink. I believe that any printhead that was once clogged can be cleaned with the soaking techniques that have been described. But the bad printing always comes back because the source of the print problems did not go away,.. which has always been some kind of bad ink flow from ink carts.

 

[jackson]

With the old head, I had previously run cleaning carts dry using the purge unit and am currently watching the ink levels get lower using cleaning cycles through the new head - and it would do your heart good to see how my cartriges drip ink onto paper towel - my Hobbicolors and Canon carts have been flushed and blasted with compressed air.
If it is the purge unit, it isn't cooperating by offering symptoms.I can flood it with cleaning fluid and it will be gone next time I open the cover.