HP photosmart and its pigment black not always offered in CISS kits?

[korny]

Im in the States, but for the sake of a friend in Europe I contacted an un-named CISS vendor..(it should not really matter which one at this point)

..I noticed that for the modern 364/564 HP cartridge based CISS, this particular European vendor used ONLY dye inks, and does not provide pigment black. I asked why, and was told that they do that because of "pigment ink settling at the bottom and congealing problems".

I'm thinking that this is unfortunate -- since I and others I would believe, see rather the real benefits of the HPs made to use pigment black, on plain paper.

Am I wrong and the CISS vendor more right? What do you recommend? My personal opinion is that I'm very happy with my CISS on my HP c410a, and the super-sharp no smear blacks I get...

 

[WhiteDog]

HP really messed up on the product description of these inks and why you need one or both.

Beyond that, it is hard for the average user to get the info. Some refill kits are stocked with both, but you may need only the dye ink. Chuck the other one. Watch the symbols on the top of the cartridge. Be very cautious with buying refills. Who knows what is in them?

The pigment ink is intended only for 6 and 8 color printers. The B8550 for instance will take dye ink only, while the B8850 will take both.

I like my HP B209 and I hope for more HP topics here as time goes by.

 

[pharmacist]

Nope not true: the 364/564 has a larger pigment based cartridge solely for text printing similar to the BCI-3eBK/PGI-5Bk/PGI-520 in Canon printers. Since the printing process and the desing is very similar to the Canon printers, including the separated printhead + ink tanks and even with the double sponge design in the cartridges, you can safely use Canon based refill inks like KMP/Image Specialists/Hobbicolors pigment refill ink for the text black ONLY. But the design for Canon/HP CISS is not very favourable to pigment ink, unlike Epson printers and even in this case the best systems are based on dampers. I recommend to buy (empty) original HP 364/364 cartridges (same reason as for Canon cartridges: superior design by the double density cartridges) and refill them.

 

[korny]

Thanks for comments.
Pharmacist, can you further explain the meaning of "double sponge" in the carts?

OK, I get it...pigment (black) does cause issues and is not maintenance free. But..Im...*darn* impressed by the laser-like sharpness and blackness I see from the black pigment ink on plain paper. (my other colors, the four dye inks are "off" but that thats another story..)

Yeah, many/most consumer class HPs (and I guess Canons too then?) are "hybrids", pigment black and the rest dye colors. The HP driver will insist on using the pigment black if the media is set to "plain paper". On any other media (=photopaper) it seems not use it (unless is only a low end four cart model), and just use the dye carts. At least thats how I understand it after reading HPs forums.

 

[pharmacist]

The sponge in the sponge compartment consists of two parts: a lower denser which contains most of the ink and a lighter sponge on top of it, which acts as a barrier between the ink and the air above it and to control/buffer the ink flow beneath it. You might have a look af the german website www.druckerchannel.de where this is explained.

This design is patented, therefore no aftermarket cartridge manufacturer can use this design without infringing the patent. Therefore the all use a single sponge which does not control the ink as well as the orginal cartridges.

 

[korny]

Thanks, pharmacist for filling in the gaps. (=pun intentional

 

[WhiteDog]

Let me repeat that HP messed up on the product description and packaging with the pigment/dye combination. What customer understands that a bow-tie symbol may or may not be their ink?

I am also correct that information is hard to come by, since some heavy posters here seem not to have it yet. Nor did anybody except myself answer the OP about it.

As for the so-called refilling industry, and just for a little test, tell me if there is anything in this advertisement that doesn't fit....or for that matter which may brick your printhead.


HP Refill Kit With Easy Refillable Cartridges

This refill kit can be used on the HP Photosmart Plus, B209a Printer
HP 564 cartridges ( 4 )
2 - Sets Of Easy Refillable Cartridges with Refill Clips
1 - 120 ml Bottle of pigment black ink ( waterproof )
1 - 60 ml Bottle of Cyan, Magenta and Yellow ink.
4 - Refilling syringes and tips
1 - Chip Removal Tool
1 - New Chip Board
1 - Set of rubber gloves
1 - Set of step by step color photo instructions.

[name] has invented a new chip board to help deal with HP's new chips that are used on the 564 and 920 cartridges.
Instead of transferring chips back and forth on refillable cartridges all you will have to do is install them onto our chip board and then install the board on the printhead.
This stop the possibility of damage to the chips.Works great for refillable cartridges or our CIS ink system.
* Customer must remove the chip off the original HP cartridges and place them on the refillable cartridges.
The ink level will not reset to full but you can still print.

As I said, its a mess.

Or try this forum posting and following ones from HP's own support website...

I just registered so I could add my frustration to this grown list of users who were duped by HPs insane numbering of these cartridges.
Why on earth would anyone number two BLACK ink cartridges both 564, when the are completely incompatable with each other. It totally defies logic, and one can only wonder if indeed this is meant to generate additional cartridge sales, which it certainly has done.
I double checked all the boxes, and while the inside of my printer is indeed clearly marked with a cute little hexagon symbol (instead of the bow tie), there is no such symbol on the outside of the boxes the cartridges are sold in. Why would any sane person go to the trouble of coding the printer and cartridges with little symbols but then not include them on the PACKAGING, when they are non-returnable after the packaging is opened.
I nominate this debacle for the stupid packaging award.


Pasted from <http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Other-...9-Photo-Black-Ink-Question/td-p/181389/page/3

or this happy customer

just thought i would beat this dead horse a little more. i too had the issue of being led into the purchase of a photopack and was sorely disappointed. the best part is on some of the other threads they mention the potential damage caused by the insertion of the "photo black" ink cartridge into the slot for the standard 564 black ink.
better yet is the fact that HP will never in a million years own up to this mistake, and will continue to pump out new products for profit. Hopefully learning from this mistake. although they could take a lesson from Toyota (a bit dramatic i know), activate a recall, or offer at least an ink exchange program for this misstep in quality assurance.


Pasted from <http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Other-...9-Photo-Black-Ink-Question/td-p/181389/page/3

and finally

Now about all this people yelling in this thread... You should have really looked up inside your printer first, before purchasing tons of catridges. The only excuse would be buying in advance, before actually seeing the printer itself. This is where HP failed - they should have written
"Warning, Photosmart Plus (B209a-m) is not compatible with 364 Black Photo Catridges and uses regular Black ink instead. So you only need 4 catridges, not 5."

Pasted from <http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Other-...-Photo-Black-Ink-Question/td-p/181389/page/3>

So I put a big NOPE on your posting, Pharmacist.

 

[pharmacist]

Is the question about the black 364/564 large pigment text cartridge or not ? There are some models like the B8850 which uses an additional 364 photo black cartridge to enhance contrast. Conclusion: all these types of HP printers use PIGMENT black for the black cartridges and some of them has an additional dye-based photo black cartridge too, to enhance contrast. But it is very recognizable: the pigment cartridge is always thicker then the dye-based cartridges. So whether you have 4 or 5 cartridges: the black text cartridges still uses pigment ink, not dye.

 

[Evelyn Y]

HP Photo Smart B9180 Pro (has 8 carts. #38).......my cleans itself 3x per day. Does anyone know how to stop this?
Also wondering if anyone knows how to refill the HP carts...does the chip need reset....what refill system to use? Thank you

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Evelyn, this is the wrong thread. The subject is completely different, and it's over two years old. You really should post a completely new question. Be sure to use a descriptive title.