Homemade CISS

[wss]

It might be worth mentioning that there is another design that accomplishes the same by very different means. Someone pointed out that you can regulate the pressure perfectly by floating the ink bottles in water. Then someone pointed out that you can do the same by floating the bottles on springs that are matched to the area of the bottles. I don't remember who did this, but someone made a very nice CIS using springs.

I doubt that they can work. Firstly, if they would - chineese would be already producing them...

Secondly, the corelationship between the height produced by water and weight of the bottle in most cases will not be linear because the weight of the dissappeared ink will represent only a fraction of the total weight of the bottle (i.e. 1 ml of dissappeared ink may represent 1-2-any percent of the weight of the bottle as even empty bottle has some weight, so it will float higher by the relevant percentage of weight rather than amount of ink). It will some really serious playing with the form, size and weight of the bottle in order to achieve linear correlation. The same logic will apply to springs plus they can change their characteristics with the time.

or in the cap of the bottle ?
thanks

It is a bad decision.

what about

Can I make it near the cap or ...thanks

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Can you avoid Marriotte tank altogether by simply using large horizontal bottle, e.g. box for CDs ?

Yes. For example, a rectangular bottle 4 cm x 5 cm x 2 cm high would give you a capacity of 40 mL, and the liquid level would be constant to 1 cm. That's more than good enough if you can find the right bottle. Getting the last bit of ink out of the bottle would be a problem, but it probably would be with aaa's design as well.

I doubt that they can work. Firstly, if they would - chineese would be already producing them...

You're probably right. I suppose it's also impossible to invent anything, because the Chinese would already have done it.

Secondly, the corelationship between the height produced by water and weight of the bottle in most cases will not be linear

Actually, the gross weight of the bottle (with ink) is a linear function of the ink level. I think the rest of your argument is also incorrect, but it would take too much time to explain. You know that there's a working model in use -- right?

someone made a very nice CIS using springs.

I know these designs. But I do not like it. The less moving parts are better, the reliability is higher.

A spring is a pretty reliable device, but you have to find the right spring. You could achieve the same even more simply with a block of wood under the bottle to adjust the height. You would have to readjust it occasionally, but it would work perfectly, and I can't think of a simpler system.

 

[turbguy]

... Someone pointed out that you can regulate the pressure perfectly by floating the ink bottles in water. Then someone pointed out that you can do the same by floating the bottles on springs that are matched to the area of the bottles. I don't remember who did this, but someone made a very nice CIS using springs.

I know these designs. But I do not like it. The less moving parts are better, the reliability is higher.

Particularly if you keep and use the printer in a pull-out drawer!

 

[wss]

Secondly, the corelationship between the height produced by water and weight of the bottle in most cases will not be linear

Actually, the gross weight of the bottle (with ink) is a linear function of the ink level. I think the rest of your argument is also incorrect, but it would take too much time to explain.

even if it is linear it is not 1:1 ! after the 1 ml the balancing level will start to change

Secondly, the corelationship between the height produced by water and weight of the bottle in most cases will not be linear

... You know that there's a working model in use -- right?

If you can give a link for that working model - I would definitely take a look on it.

Can you avoid Marriotte tank altogether by simply using large horizontal bottle, e.g. box for CDs ?

Yes. For example, a rectangular bottle 4 cm x 5 cm x 2 cm high would give you a capacity of 40 mL, and the liquid level would be constant to 1 cm. That's more than good enough if you can find the right bottle. Getting the last bit of ink out of the bottle would be a problem, but it probably would be with aaa's design as well.

I would rather use a bottle but would simply put it on the side...

 

[turbguy]

Secondly, the corelationship between the height produced by water and weight of the bottle in most cases will not be linear

Actually, the gross weight of the bottle (with ink) is a linear function of the ink level. I think the rest of your argument is also incorrect, but it would take too much time to explain.

even if it is linear it is not 1:1 ! after the 1 ml the balancing level will start to change

Secondly, the corelationship between the height produced by water and weight of the bottle in most cases will not be linear

... You know that there's a working model in use -- right?

If you can give a link for that working model - I would definitely take a look on it.

Can you avoid Marriotte tank altogether by simply using large horizontal bottle, e.g. box for CDs ?

Yes. For example, a rectangular bottle 4 cm x 5 cm x 2 cm high would give you a capacity of 40 mL, and the liquid level would be constant to 1 cm. That's more than good enough if you can find the right bottle. Getting the last bit of ink out of the bottle would be a problem, but it probably would be with aaa's design as well.

I would rather use a bottle but would simply put it on the side...

With springs...
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2498

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I would rather use a bottle but would simply put it on the side...

You could get a square bottle. You want to locate the outlet near the bottom, but with pigment I think you would have to be careful to locate it so it couldn't clog. Otherwise I don't see why it wouldn't work. Personally, if I were building one, I would just use an upright bottle and adjust the levels occasionally by hand. If I got tired of that, I would just use springs. The reference to that is somewhere on this forum. You can search for it with
<search terms> site:www.nifty-stuff.com

 

[The Hat]

With springs...
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2498

Great Search turbguy

 

[websnail]

Fascinating topic, but just on the point re: moving parts.. I know this is very home brew and could be tidied up but the one thing that occurs to me is that the amount of connections and glueing going on leaves me wary of the potential for the joins to leak at some point in the future. Obviously the solution is an appropriate glue or epoxy but a thought nonetheless.

As for the whole spring scenario, I'd be happier with the water floated reservoirs scenario. The tricks would be in:
- being able to keep the bottles upright
- providing a means to agitate pigment inks to stop settling
- ensuring the reservoirs/bottles could adjust cleanly, without catching as ink was used up
- refilling the bottles would require a tube clamp and a means of locking the bottle in place so you could top up without the bottle dropping as you go or overpressuring the CIS.


As I said, fascinating thread and enjoying the mental gymnastics immensely

 

[turbguy]

Fascinating topic, but just on the point re: moving parts.. I know this is very home brew and could be tidied up but the one thing that occurs to me is that the amount of connections and glueing going on leaves me wary of the potential for the joins to leak at some point in the future. Obviously the solution is an appropriate glue or epoxy but a thought nonetheless.

As for the whole spring scenario, I'd be happier with the water floated reservoirs scenario. The tricks would be in:
- being able to keep the bottles upright
- providing a means to agitate pigment inks to stop settling
- ensuring the reservoirs/bottles could adjust cleanly, without catching as ink was used up
- refilling the bottles would require a tube clamp and a means of locking the bottle in place so you could top up without the bottle dropping as you go or overpressuring the CIS.


As I said, fascinating thread and enjoying the mental gymnastics immensely

AND don't forget about maintaining a level in the floating reservoir! As water evaporates, down go the bottles. As the bottles empty, down go the bottles! I guess you could connect the revervoir to an overflow weir and.....A Marriotte BOTTLE!

Wayne

 

[wss]

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2498

thanks
I have couple springs - will test them...