HobbiColors for my iP8500 make prints look greenier

[Grandad35]

Unless your monitor is calibrated, you should print grayscale images to judge the color of your printer/ink/paper combination.

This comment was targeted toward anyone with an uncalibrated monitor. In this case, the only way to know for sure that a color cast is caused by the printer is by printing known neutral colors - grayscale suits this requirement.

There was a recent post (sorry, but I can't find it - it should be put into the FAQs) that showed how these printers use a combination of the colored inks to print the mid-tones in grayscale, so any tendency of an ink/paper/printer combination to cause color casts can easily be seen. A custom profile can go a long way toward correcting these casts, but if you are really fussy it will never be as good as using just gray/black inks. Also consider that different ink colors fade at different rates - as the prints age, you can expect to see color casts form even if the prints were neutral when they are produced. Even dye based black ink usually fades toward blue - the only good solution seems to be to use pigment based black and grays because they hold their color better.

One final comment - "B&W" prints aren't usually grayscale - they tend toward a sepia color.

 

[hpnetserver]

Hello Zekkorn, is your application mainly graphic arts or photography? There is a huge difference between the two.

I remember trying to learn about color management. I stumbled over what I read from some documents regarding color management. Basically it said if you print graphic arts you want exact colors to be reproduced in your prints. You need colorimetric profiles to help you achieve that. But if your application is mainly photography stuff you want to use a different type of profile which I do not remember any more. But there are 4 type of profiles. Colorimetric being one and there are still 3 more. One of the 3 is most desired for photography.

If I still remember correctly, colorimetric profile is for exact color reproduction assuming your printer, ink and media combination has a wide enough color range (or color space) to reproduce all the colors you want to print. But for photography the goal of the most appropriate profile is to reproduce as beautiful colors as possible without exact color accuracy. This type of profile are very subjective and can be very different from one to another. This is really the confusing part. Such a profile is not meant to reproduce colors exactly. COlor matching is not the goal.

I have been using Hobbicolors WC6 ink (and recently UW8 ink) for more than two years. I also have an ip8500. If I understand your post you expect WC6 ink to match exactly or very close to OEM colors. You will need to use a colorimetric based profile made for your ip8500 with WC6 ink and the photo paper of your choice. Without a colorimetric profile you will always see some color differences. You will need to stick to one printer, one ink (OEM) and one photo paper in order to maintain color consistency. WHen you switch ink you will always see differences one way or another.

But if you print photos then it's going to be a different story. You will see color differences still. And you may need a profile for photographic application to optimize the colors of your photo still. As the result the photo will be beautiful, maybe close to OEM colors but still there will be differences. I think this is actually what to expect and it will work very well. I like Hobbicolors WC6 ink. It prints stungingly beautiful colors as I see it. Many of my friend saw my photo prints. Most of them were surprised how beautiful colors 3rd party ink can print. I think you need to get used to what 3rd party ink offers you. It's not the same as OEM ink. Especially if you consider the price you pay for the ink it's a steal any time.

Oh, yeah you need to switch to all Hobbicolors ink, not just a few cartridges, if you ask for color accuracy for your graphic art application. You will need a colorimetric profile to be possible to achieve exact color consistency.

 

[WhiteDog]

Hobbicolors is a very good product. I have been using it for two years. Make sure you refill ONLY Canon cartridges, not those offered as replacements. They are not worth the postage. Greyscale printing on the i9900 will drive you nuts until you set everything in the driver to grayscale and save as a profilte. I will post on this later, and probably start a new thread. I wasted a lot of paper on that one too.

 

[Grandad35]

A few notes on "Rendering intents".
http://photography.about.com/library/weekly/aa033103c.htm

According to "Real World Color Management" (Bruce Fraser), an "Output Profile" (e.g. a printer profile) should contain 6 separate look up tables (LUTs).
There are 3 to profile the data sent to the printer, and there are 3 to allow you to "soft proof" what the printed image will look like on your calibrated monitor. Each set of 3 covers 3 of the 4 rendering intents:
1. Perceptual
2. Saturation
3. Relative Colorimetric

The 4th rendering intent (Absolute Colorimetric) doesn't need a separate LUT because it is the same as Relative Colorimetric, but without white point compensation. Hpnetserver is correct that a graphic artist will normally use a different rendering intent than a photographer, but a single custom profile should support all 4 rendering intents for both printing and soft proofing.

Here are two additional links on color management:
http://www.normankoren.com/color_management.html
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_management.htm

 

[Zakkorn]

Hi,
sorry I didnt respond earlier I was away from home, from yesterday, till a few hours ago.

@Grandad35: Thanks for your suggestion about Cathy's profiles, but I am thinking seriously to buy either ColorFIX Pro Suite from Colorvision or the Eye one display design pack, that both doing monitor and printer calibration. If I dont have money for one of these soon then probably I ll give a try at Cathy's Profiles.

@hpnetserver: I received a reply to my last email I sent to Hobbicolors about this matter. They reported that theWC6 Ink does that yellow cast and their UW8 ink is better. So probably I was little out of luck to get the WC6 inks. Not that with UW8 would be perfect but at least not as bad as it looks now. And to answer your question I am mainly a 3D modeler and Graphic Artist and I am using the printer to give examples of work to my clients before they do final prints on lab or offset printers. Still I have just began freelancing so I am a little scared about big differences from my printer in comparison to the final print from a professional machine. You understand what I mean.

@WhiteDog: Why is better to use Canon's tanks instead of the hobbicolors'

Thank you all for your help. I learned a lot of things from you.

 

[ghwellsjr]

There was a recent post (sorry, but I can't find it - it should be put into the FAQs) that showed how these printers use a combination of the colored inks to print the mid-tones in grayscale, so any tendency of an ink/paper/printer combination to cause color casts can easily be seen.

I believe that would be post #3 in this thread:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=8390#p8390

 

[ghwellsjr]

@WhiteDog: Why is better to use Canon's tanks instead of the hobbicolors'

Well, I'm not WhiteDog, but I'll point you to my answer to why Canon's cartridges are better than anyone else's. Read post #3 in this thread:

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1169

 

[Grandad35]

. I am thinking seriously to buy either ColorFIX Pro Suite from Colorvision or the Eye one display design pack, that both doing monitor and printer calibration.

Colorimeters do a good job of calibrating monitors, but less so on printer profiles. I have read some decent reviews on the ColorFix's printer profiles, but less so on the EyeOne Design's printer profiles. Before buying either of these packages, be sure to read a lot of reviews.

. I am mainly a 3D modeler and Graphic Artist and I am using the printer to give examples of work to my clients before they do final prints on lab or offset printers. Still I have just began freelancing so I am a little scared about big differences from my printer in comparison to the final print from a professional machine.

This is EXACTLY why you should set up a color managed workflow. Any "professional machine" will be color managed, and they will be able to provide you with their printer profile for the ink/paper that will be used to print your designs. Once your monitor is calibrated, you will be able to "soft proof" your designs against their printer profile and see a very close representation of what a final print will look like without printing it. This gives you the ability to modify your color selections to give a more pleasing result before submitting your work to your client. You will have to make sure that they print with the same rendering intent and black point compensation settings as you use, but this isn't a problem for a professional printer. You might also want to ask whether your client's monitors are calibrated.

I believe that would be post #3 in this thread: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1447

Correct - that is the post. Thanks

 

[hpnetserver]

There can never be perfect color matching against Canon OEM for any 3rd party ink. Unleass a 3rd party ink has an exact identical formulation there will be always some differences. For each 3rd party ink there will always be users who are totally satisfied but in the mean time there will be some others who are completely disappointed.

When you print with OEM ink on OEM paper you are using an OEM profile specifically made for perfect colors. But when you use the exact same setup, same paper and same everything but print with a 3rd party ink you are still using a same profile Canon made for Canon ink. This is like trying to wear a pair of shoes custom made for your brother which are just not perfect for your feet. You have perfectly healthy feet and the shoes are hign quality. Still you may not feel right about wearing your brother's shoes.

You really need to custom make your own shoes, and profiles as well if you want perfect colors. It also depends on each person's need. Printing graphic art is one that does require colors to be identical to naked eyes. Try to print your work on an Epson then on a Canon. You can expect to see significant differences. But aren't they both OEM? Only if your colors are way off then you probably have a very wrong color management that screws up things.

 

[Inky]

*IMPORTANT NEWS FOR HOBBICOLORS USERS*

Use the Hobbicolors UW-8 ink for your BCI-6 printer, not the BCI-6 ink, it's MUCH, MUCH BETTER. Just special request a kit of UW8 ink with BCI-6 carts. I've been using UW8 for months in my 1pl BCI-6 printer and it's highly compatible, matched OEM color, and requires no profiling. It also has better fade resistance, and wider gamut.

The most important qualities of the UW8 inks are: color "linearity," wider gamut, and fade resistance. UW8 prints can be tinted, or neutralized, or whatever, to your liking, easily using only printer settings, depending on your ambient light and paper choice. No profiling required in my experience.

By comparison many OEM inks will have a "nonlinear" magenta tint in the midtones and a green tint in the shadows (including the Hobbicolors BCI-6 imho, whihc also has a strong overall yellow cast) which is impossible to remove using basic print settings.

I wrote a full review of them elsewhere, but to summarize, BCI-6 inks are not recommended because despite being relatively good compared with most OEM inks, they still have some cast and fade issues. The UW8 inks I highly recommend, even for (4) color (1) picoliter BCI-6 printers (the most difficult compatibility test) because they're linear, wider gamut, more accurate to OEM, highly adjustable in printer settings, and fade resistant.