Help with fading photos

[costadinos]

I definitely agree with you guys, type of paper, framing, viewing conditions etc influence the fade resistance of all dye inks.

But this is pretty much the problem, isn't it? Why would you print using dyes when the outcome is pretty much hit and miss?
And of course 3rd party dye inks are nowhere near the OEM in regards to fade resistance (apart from some newer inks that pharmacist tested recently).
I have prints made during the past years with at least 5 different 3rd party dye inksets and most of them have fading issues.

I will also have to disagree about the quality of the dye inksets vs the pigments. Why do you think all "fine art" printers utilize pigments with great results, even though the OEM dyes are of archival enough quality for most applications? If Epson and Canon and HP considered the dyes that much better, don't you think they would design their top of the line printers with dye inksets?
The only area that pigments don't perform as well is the glossiness, but there are 3rd party inksets (Cone, Inktec) that perform surprisingly well in that area also.
As for Dmax, no, I don't think dyes are better, at least visually. Yes, they do have greater gamut on paper, but in real life it's hard to tell them apart. And what's more, black and whites are much better with the pigment printers as they use more than one shades of grey.

Bottom line is, why should anyone take any chances with dye inks, when there exist as good pigment inks at the same price? Fading over time should not be a concern anymore and the rest of their qualities are as good or better than their dye counterparts.
I've sold tens of thousands of prints made with pigments on glossy paper during the recent years and no customer ever complained about glossiness, gamut, vibrancy etc...

 

[Methodical]

In case you are interested, Canon has 4x6 paper on sale. Buy 1, get 4 free. That's 500 sheets for $19 and free shipping. There are others on sale, too, but I noticed you mentioned 4x6.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...per/photo-paper-plus-glossy-ii-4x6-100-sheets

 

[Whiskey]

I definitely agree with you guys, type of paper, framing, viewing conditions etc influence the fade resistance of all dye inks.

But this is pretty much the problem, isn't it? Why would you print using dyes when the outcome is pretty much hit and miss?
And of course 3rd party dye inks are nowhere near the OEM in regards to fade resistance (apart from some newer inks that pharmacist tested recently).
I have prints made during the past years with at least 5 different 3rd party dye inksets and most of them have fading issues.

I will also have to disagree about the quality of the dye inksets vs the pigments. Why do you think all "fine art" printers utilize pigments with great results, even though the OEM dyes are of archival enough quality for most applications? If Epson and Canon and HP considered the dyes that much better, don't you think they would design their top of the line printers with dye inksets?
The only area that pigments don't perform as well is the glossiness, but there are 3rd party inksets (Cone, Inktec) that perform surprisingly well in that area also.
As for Dmax, no, I don't think dyes are better, at least visually. Yes, they do have greater gamut on paper, but in real life it's hard to tell them apart. And what's more, black and whites are much better with the pigment printers as they use more than one shades of grey.

Bottom line is, why should anyone take any chances with dye inks, when there exist as good pigment inks at the same price? Fading over time should not be a concern anymore and the rest of their qualities are as good or better than their dye counterparts.
I've sold tens of thousands of prints made with pigments on glossy paper during the recent years and no customer ever complained about glossiness, gamut, vibrancy etc...

I don't sell prints, and I got the printer on sale for under $100 with rebates. It is vastly better than my old brother 3 color all in one. As much as I would love a pigment printer, I don't do enough of this to justify the cost since I mainly print for my pleasure and to show others/display in my home.

I don't disagree, but I wasn't well educated in the differences prior to buying it, and now I'd simply like to work with what I have if possible. I'm totally okay with reprinting every 5 years if need be, and I'm also okay with picking up the right paper to keep the loose photos around for more than a month.

I'm actually seeing fading on a photo I printed 2 weeks ago at work, so something has really gone weird with something because I've refilled my carts at least twice, and I've used 200 sheets of the kirkland paper so far without issues like this.

Does paper go bad if left sitting out before being printed on?

Whiskey

 

[Whiskey]

In case you are interested, Canon has 4x6 paper on sale. Buy 1, get 4 free. That's 500 sheets for $19 and free shipping. There are others on sale, too, but I noticed you mentioned 4x6.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...per/photo-paper-plus-glossy-ii-4x6-100-sheets

Great deal!!! That's as good as the Kirkland brand. Is it better paper?

Thank you for the heads up!
Whiskey

 

[mikem65d]

In case you are interested, Canon has 4x6 paper on sale. Buy 1, get 4 free. That's 500 sheets for $19 and free shipping. There are others on sale, too, but I noticed you mentioned 4x6.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...per/photo-paper-plus-glossy-ii-4x6-100-sheets

Very good deal indeed. My son just received his order, 5 pks of 4x6, 10 pks of 5x7, and 5 pks of 8.5x11 for $54.00 shipped.
I am going to order from Red River soon to try out, and give PC some support.

 

[3dogs]

I definitely agree with you guys, type of paper, framing, viewing conditions etc influence the fade resistance of all dye inks.

But this is pretty much the problem, isn't it? Why would you print using dyes when the outcome is pretty much hit and miss?
And of course 3rd party dye inks are nowhere near the OEM in regards to fade resistance (apart from some newer inks that pharmacist tested recently).
I have prints made during the past years with at least 5 different 3rd party dye inksets and most of them have fading issues.

I will also have to disagree about the quality of the dye inksets vs the pigments. Why do you think all "fine art" printers utilize pigments with great results, even though the OEM dyes are of archival enough quality for most applications? If Epson and Canon and HP considered the dyes that much better, don't you think they would design their top of the line printers with dye inksets?
The only area that pigments don't perform as well is the glossiness, but there are 3rd party inksets (Cone, Inktec) that perform surprisingly well in that area also.
As for Dmax, no, I don't think dyes are better, at least visually. Yes, they do have greater gamut on paper, but in real life it's hard to tell them apart. And what's more, black and whites are much better with the pigment printers as they use more than one shades of grey.

Bottom line is, why should anyone take any chances with dye inks, when there exist as good pigment inks at the same price? Fading over time should not be a concern anymore and the rest of their qualities are as good or better than their dye counterparts.
I've sold tens of thousands of prints made with pigments on glossy paper during the recent years and no customer ever complained about glossiness, gamut, vibrancy etc...

I don't sell prints, and I got the printer on sale for under $100 with rebates. It is vastly better than my old brother 3 color all in one. As much as I would love a pigment printer, I don't do enough of this to justify the cost since I mainly print for my pleasure and to show others/display in my home.

I don't disagree, but I wasn't well educated in the differences prior to buying it, and now I'd simply like to work with what I have if possible. I'm totally okay with reprinting every 5 years if need be, and I'm also okay with picking up the right paper to keep the loose photos around for more than a month.

I'm actually seeing fading on a photo I printed 2 weeks ago at work, so something has really gone weird with something because I've refilled my carts at least twice, and I've used 200 sheets of the kirkland paper so far without issues like this.

Does paper go bad if left sitting out before being printed on?

Whiskey

You need not justify yourself here, the issue you have and the choices you made are echoes of many of us. We too have charged in and taken the plunge, only to find that SOME folks who are further along have forgotten how they got to where they are today, and open their mouths and let their bellies rumble.
Your choice of printer is good, your expectations of print life are good, mounted properly and located away from too much direct light you WILL get double that lifespan, I KNOW that cos I have A4's printed on Canon Matte on a 4 colour multifunction Waaaay back when, and they are still doing fine.

Clearly something has gone amiss. Taking a camera card to the local print shop and having prints made for you is VERY different from doing it yourself. That is a real hard concept to grasp, as it defies logic. But in taking the plunge you are on a path that has some rules. The rules are variable and depend on what tools you are working with and how you use them.

Now staying strictly with colour fading. I have had it happen to me at the start. I bought price brand printing paper rather than Canon brand. Printed without regard to the rules and had rapid fading. See a Canon paper setting (profile) will lay down as much ink as is required for the matching paper to handle and give good average performance. Change the paper and a person has to get a whole bunch of information (Custom profile) to tell the printer just how to get a good average print using the new paper.

May I recommend to you this path:

Get a pack of Canon paper, and use the Canon printer settings for that paper, if you are not sure post here your chosen Canon paper and one of the folks who is using the same printer will happily guide you through the steps required.

That should ensure that you have a good chance of having a baseline to work from.

you could also follow the same steps using your existing Kirkland paper, and that too will give you another baseline from which the members can start to assist.

As an aside, printer enthusiasts could be compared to an onion with many layers. The outer layers are a greater area and represent the beginners, the closer you get to the core so there are less, and they have learned more. Sadly they forget how they got there and their juice(knowledge) is more refined and can bring tears to your eyes unless you know how to hold them at arms length and destill out from their babble the bits you need on your journey to where you want to get to.

good luck

 

[costadinos]

You need not justify yourself here, the issue you have and the choices you made are echoes of many of us. We too have charged in and taken the plunge, only to find that SOME folks who are further along have forgotten how they got to where they are today, and open their mouths and let their bellies rumble.
Your choice of printer is good, your expectations of print life are good, mounted properly and located away from too much direct light you WILL get double that lifespan, I KNOW that cos I have A4's printed on Canon Matte on a 4 colour multifunction Waaaay back when, and they are still doing fine.



good luck

No need to be rude, this is not this kind of a forum.
In fact what we were discussing is exactly the king of info new users will be looking about here, and a new user reading this thread would have probably be lead to believe that he could do OK with dye inks, even regarding their fade resistance, which is not always true.

I'm actually seeing fading on a photo I printed 2 weeks ago at work, so something has really gone weird with something because I've refilled my carts at least twice, and I've used 200 sheets of the kirkland paper so far without issues like this.

Does paper go bad if left sitting out before being printed on?

Whiskey

No, paper will not go bad in general.
May I suggest you invest in an A3 laminator as well? If glossy prints is what you are after, laminating them only takes a few seconds and pouches are a few cents worth.
Doing this will greatly improve their fade resistance and also their scratch and water resistance.
You can get an A3 laminator for next to nothing these days.

 

[3dogs]

We too have charged in and taken the plunge, only to find that SOME folks who are further along have forgotten how they got to where they are today, and open their mouths and let their bellies rumble.
Your choice of printer is good, your expectations of print life are good, mounted properly and located away from too much direct light you WILL get double that lifespan, I KNOW that cos I have A4's printed on Canon Matte on a 4 colour multifunction Waaaay back when, and they are still doing fine.

Did not set out to be rude, if you read rather than assume, you will see that I refers to what is a common experience, both for myself and many many similar posts that have been hijacked by an "expert" trying to make a point for the betterment of mankind and simply belabouring an esoteric point that has no relevance to the OP's issues..........if you want to find some examples all you have to do is flick through some of the other forums.

If I were being rude, you would not be left in ANY doubt....trust me

 

[martin0reg]

...
And of course 3rd party dye inks are nowhere near the OEM in regards to fade resistance (apart from some newer inks that pharmacist tested recently)...

Agreed - particularly with the remark ... If dye inks could be as good as the latest epson and canon oem dye inks are, so why 3rd party manufacturers should not be able to make progress too?

...
Bottom line is, why should anyone take any chances with dye inks, when there exist as good pigment inks at the same price? Fading over time should not be a concern anymore and the rest of their qualities are as good or better than their dye counterparts.
I've sold tens of thousands of prints made with pigments on glossy paper during the recent years and no customer ever complained about glossiness, gamut, vibrancy etc...

..perhaps they would complain if they could see a really shiny flawless gloss made of dye ink in comparison..
As so often this depends on preference
...sometimes I like real "mirror finish" - especially on smaller prints.
..sometimes I like luster or matte paper - and it seems that most bigger prints from pigment printes are made on these types of paper..

 

[Frank77433]

Sadly they forget how they got there and their juice(knowledge) is more refined and can bring tears to your eyes unless you know how to hold them at arms length and destill out from their babble the bits you need on your journey to where you want to get to.

good luck

Well said, well played.
Frank