Forum Rants

[3dogs]

The simple problem on a forum like this is if we don’t allow members to have a guanine rant then we are not being true to our very friendly nature here, with exceptions of course !!

So if anybody wants to rant off for whatever reason they can start a new thread of their very own in “EVERYTHING ELSE” and call it whatever they wish and then we can at several members requests move any unnecessary rants to that thread to keep the original one clean and clear..

Would that work ?
@Roy Sletcher Very nice new Avatar..

Squirox is the word that the hapless character Milligan chose to indicate to the Author (Spike Milligan) that he was unhappy with the way the plot in the book "Puckoon" was developing ............

Its - light hearted, humerous, and non judgemetal......

Sadly the complete aptness of the word and what it conveys is apparent only to me and my wacky sense of humour, and folks of the Irish/British persuasion.


As has already been raised by others there is much to be lost by censure. What I see as censure worthy and what Paul Verizzo (for example) would be poles apart on one hand, but is what makes this forum what it is. Disagreemet and conflict are the bricks and mortar on which humans interaction and progress has been built since the beginning, and we still after millenia have not found a "good" way to deal with it.

Its warm and cosy, and VERY dry when a thread stays "academic" like a technical paper. But like ALL familys we are made up of a bunch of VERY different folk, who can look at the same post and have VERY different reactions to the contents.
If I have learned just one thing over my 67 years and as head of a family, tolerance builds families, intolerance destroys or at least erodes an fractures. Families that learn to listen and " see" rather than just look and react are more likely to be joyful attractive communities than their more authoritarian counterparts.

In this spirit I offer the word SQUIROX, and the process of Authorship to the OP to use the word to convey discomfort.
So the Author (OP) indicates discomfort with a post and it is then up to the poster to move/remove /create a new thread with his her post.
Regardless, once ANY censure tool is used, it will be destructive. Even having more proactive MODERATION, will, eventually be destructive.

However, if a word/ term like SQUIROX ( a silly harmless, meaningless word) became accepted by all as a polite light hearted REUEST/EXPRESSION that we use as a non threatening way to request a move.........it my work....but its still a big risk

What do others think, whatever, its going to need to be ALL of us that decide, not just a few. Alternative is an EDICT and that will also bring changes that may not preserve what we have here at this time.
Andrew

 

[stratman]

Recently, there has been concern about off topic posting. Our new Staff Member @The Hat suggested starting a new thread where people can vent, rant, and go off topic. Or discuss about off topic posts.

So, I have created this thread to do just that. Maybe The Hat can also transfer the off topic posts from that thread to here as he mentioned and clean up the other thread.

To begin this thread I will copy and paste @[URL='http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/canon-usa-statement-on-grey-market-products.9595/page-7#post-78746']3dogs[/URL] post on this topic and then my response thereafter.

As has already been raised by others there is much to be lost by censure. What I see as censure worthy and what Paul Verizzo (for example) would be poles apart on one hand, but is what makes this forum what it is. Disagreemet and conflict are the bricks and mortar on which humans interaction and progress has been built since the beginning, and we still after millenia have not found a "good" way to deal with it.

Its warm and cosy, and VERY dry when a thread stays "academic" like a technical paper. But like ALL familys we are made up of a bunch of VERY different folk, who can look at the same post and have VERY different reactions to the contents.
If I have learned just one thing over my 67 years and as head of a family, tolerance builds families, intolerance destroys or at least erodes an fractures. Families that learn to listen and " see" rather than just look and react are more likely to be joyful attractive communities than their more authoritarian counterparts.

In this spirit I offer the word SQUIROX, and the process of Authorship to the OP to use the word to convey discomfort.
So the Author (OP) indicates discomfort with a post and it is then up to the poster to move/remove /create a new thread with his her post.
Regardless, once ANY censure tool is used, it will be destructive. Even having more proactive MODERATION, will, eventually be destructive.

However, if a word/ term like SQUIROX ( a silly harmless, meaningless word) became accepted by all as a polite light hearted REUEST/EXPRESSION that we use as a non threatening way to request a move.........it my work....but its still a big risk

What do others think, whatever, its going to need to be ALL of us that decide, not just a few. Alternative is an EDICT and that will also bring changes that may not preserve what we have here at this time.
Andrew

 

[stratman]

@3dogs

To answer your post in that thread would be to further the derailment of that thread.

The right you have written is weighed down by the wrong you have missed. The forum is a model of civility on the internet and remains so despite the occasional new knucklehead simply because of Management's care. Without Management's care, or a diminution of that care, then the forum will increase entropy and its chilling effects.

First, it is not ALL who decide, but the owner of the forum and his selected moderators. It is not free speech but circumscribed speech on the forum.

Second, all speech is not harmless. It is up to the leaders on the forum to root out harmful or destructive speech.

Third, this forum has been a wonderful place precisely because the Moderators/Owner have taken great care in removing antagonistic and disruptive posts/individuals. This has included transferring off topic posts to their own threads in the past, sometimes at members requests.

Fourth, if someone presents themselves as a bull in a china shop, whether a new or old member, then they should not expect all the rope on the planet to wrap the rest of us in. The length of rope afforded before hanging is a judgement call by the individual or individuals in charge, ie not you or I, though we can post our feelings about it.

Fifth, if these points are intolerable for those claiming to be tolerable then maybe you are not as tolerable as you think you are.

Sixth, if you want something different then appeal to the owner or start your own thread. Name suggestion: Lord of the Flies.

I, for one, do not care to see the forum dragged down in personality politics and petty confrontations as has been of recent. The forum has been successful because threads can be academic without much derailment if at all.

All of this is not an indictment or insult to you 3dogs. I find you a mixture of entertaining, smart, and perplexing and enjoy reading your posts.

 

[3dogs]

@3dogs

To answer your post in that thread would be to further the derailment of that thread.

The right you have written is weighed down by the wrong you have missed. The forum is a model of civility on the internet and remains so despite the occasional new knucklehead simply because of Management's care. Without Management's care, or a diminution of that care, then the forum will increase entropy and its chilling effects.

First, it is not ALL who decide, but the owner of the forum and his selected moderators. It is not free speech but circumscribed speech on the forum.

Second, all speech is not harmless. It is up to the leaders on the forum to root out harmful or destructive speech.

Third, this forum has been a wonderful place precisely because the Moderators/Owner have taken great care in removing antagonistic and disruptive posts/individuals. This has included transferring off topic posts to their own threads in the past, sometimes at members requests.

Fourth, if someone presents themselves as a bull in a china shop, whether a new or old member, then they should not expect all the rope on the planet to wrap the rest of us in. The length of rope afforded before hanging is a judgement call by the individual or individuals in charge, ie not you or I, though we can post our feelings about it.

Fifth, if these points are intolerable for those claiming to be tolerable then maybe you are not as tolerable as you think you are.

Sixth, if you want something different then appeal to the owner or start your own thread. Name suggestion: Lord of the Flies.

I, for one, do not care to see the forum dragged down in personality politics and petty confrontations as has been of recent. The forum has been successful because threads can be academic without much derailment if at all.

All of this is not an indictment or insult to you 3dogs. I find you a mixture of entertaining, smart, and perplexing and enjoy reading your posts.

For the most part in strong agreement, if I stray I'm comfortable with reminder..............

Defining "Rant" is about as easy as defining Democrat policy to a Republican and vise versa, there are too many shades of gray.

Nifty and Moderators rely very much on chance and good will with a dash of luck and good judgement on their part to maintain this outcome.

There are gladiatorial forums, technical forums, and successful forums, all nurcher diversity, its the quality and the degree to which the community coexists.

Too much Authority ( one in particular springs to mind) and folks bale out in droves leaving behind a small dry bunch of friends, sad old men (mostly) sipping countless (verbal) coffees recounting days gone by, their reverie being disturbed only by Dorothy Dix questions posed by folks needing help, and the forum is now to all intents and purposed dead but won't fall. All the good, "out there" photographers have left, taking with them the ability to think and see outside the square.
Too little Authority coupled with commercial self interest and you have a site that folks dip into for advice but the core of knowledge gets drowned out by the self serving sharks that "get" off on belittling other "LESSER" folks.

For me what thus forum has/ is a core group of folk from many cultures that are mature enough to express serious information, but also have the ability to accomodate others "language" turn it around and humourise it.

IMHO what it has not yet self developed, is the ability/ willingness of the core community to censure with maturity and mutual respect. The current discussion is to me more than ample evidence of that. When (finally) moderation occurs its already too, too late, the horse has already bolted as we have already seen.

Thus it is that I will resume the lurker status

 

[Smile]

I agree:

For me what thus forum has/ is a core group of folk from many cultures that are mature enough to express serious information, but also have the ability to accomodate others "language" turn it around and humourise it.

 

[The Hat]

Now that the Forum Rant is up and running, don’t think for a moment that the usual rules don’t apply, they do because we have always managed to accommodate these rants and they have worked well up to now so please don’t spoil it by getting to carried away..

 

[Smile]

We are community, as such the usual topic related rants are still allowed? They fill the blank spots so to say. And also gives this forum life.

 

[CakeHole]

Now that the Forum Rant is up and running, don’t think for a moment that the usual rules don’t apply, they do because we have always managed to accommodate these rants and they have worked well up to now so please don’t spoil it by getting to carried away..

Oh no don't say that i was looking forward to you spilling some blood and breaking a few noses in typical ye-olde Irish smiling style Speaking of which.... me, ducks and takes cover.

 

[fotofreek]

The individuals who sell refill ink and products under the names, Precision Colors and Octoinkjet, were longtime very valuable contributors of excellent information on this forum before they became very active sellers of their products. What we object to are new members who have come on board to get exposure for their business links or who tout products after a few non-instructive, off-topic posts to make it appear that they are legitimately interested in sharing knowledge.

No one is banned for expressing a difference of opinion. They may have been banned for THE WAY in which they expressed their opinion or did battle with someone with whom they disagreed. Disagreement is fair game --- being disagreeable is not.

 

[CakeHole]

As a lurker I have to agree with 3 dogs. I have read a few threads that have provided me with invaluable info from members who have disappeared from the forum. It seems that people who disagree in the slightest manner with the status quo seem to disappear. Also I see that the rules state that promoting commercial retail sites is not permitted but I see all kinds of references to Precision Colors and Octoinkjet?? Is this a comercial site for those retailers?

Those rules are there for stupid people that come here for no other reason than to pimp their business, and contribute nothing else to the forum. I for one agree with rules to stop them and the morals behind them.

It is not to there stop people giving their free opinion on companies that are a pleasure to do business with. Ive purchased from Octoink AKA @websnail on here and i found the items and the service i got, especially when i had a minor issue which was more than put right to be second to none and will happily recommend him at every opportunity if a user wants equipment he sells. He is where i will buy all my refill ink.

The same goes for precisioncolors and @mikling I live in the UK and have never done business with him and do not need to, his contribution on here speaks volumes about the decent kind of person he is, another not here to just pimp their own products but contribute and offer advice just like websnail.
I would happily order from him especially if i lived the other side of the pond and will point Canadians in his direction if he has a product they want. TRUST is not easily earned but those 2 people have more than earned it here.

@websnail and @mikling engage people on here, provide a valued service and contributes to the forum as any good member does. If you are saying people like that should be banned just because they own a business or because people like myself point to them as a source to buy items then you are completely cuckoo IMO..

Nobody AFAIK who contributes has been banned here, thankfully its not the type of place that has constant single post idiots pimping their warez or a forum full of trolls to cause trouble.... In fact with our new resident slightly loony irish man (i mean that in a good way hehe) @The Hat (oh he is gonna kill me) as a moderator people like that will not last long, so short in fact ive never had to see any of them or their pointlessness.