FLUSHING....WHY?

[The Hat]

You're getting frisky today. Did Mrs. The Hat unlock the top shelf beverages today?

I, me keeps it on the bottom shelf, it would be a crime to spill a drop..

 

[jnug]

So looking at the videos regarding air pockets on the sponge side of a Canon ink cart especially with regard to the 221 and up, opaque series with window and without, it sounds like one does not get a low ink warning until some ink has already been used from the sponge side. I am guessing that means that as ink is displaced by air in the upper sponge, even if you refill at that point, air pockets are forming or could be forming in the upper sponge area. You still have ink saturating most of the sponge but air will have displaced ink in the upper sponge and air pockets may well start forming.

Do you guys think that refilling at that point will allow ink to saturate all the way up into the upper sponge area or is the sponge likely to begin to accept less ink volume due to air pockets beginning to form almost immediately in the upper sponge area.

Conversely is this issue of air pockets forming on the sponge side really one of air pockets in the lower sponge area where most of the channels between the sponge side and the reservoir exist. I guess one would have to be running the carts to empty to have air pockets start forming down there.

If one were to religiously refill at the low ink warning for a particular cart, topping off the others at the same time, it would seem if all above is correct, that one could go a long time without having to flush carts. Does that make any sense or do we think air pockets do start to form in the upper sponge very quickly via the displacement of ink with air and that the sponge side from that moment on begins absorbing less and less ink in subsequent refillings.

 

[The Hat]

I don’t know where you got the idea that your printer won’t show a low ink warning when the reservoir side of your cartridge becomes empty of ink.

All Canon printer fitted with this prism in their cartridges will show this warning without exception and this is guaranteed.

So the argument on your printer using ink from the sponge side of the cartridges just doesn’t hold up because it just doesn’t happen, not a drop in fact, so you’ll be safe enough to refill on receiving this notice.

The only exception to this rule is when you continue to print long after this warning notice has appeared which at that point you’re perfectly right..

 

[jnug]

I think if you review the videos from Precision Colors that are attached to this thread, in the only video that includes the smaller window tanks (221's) PC reports that the way the prism works in those tanks, some amount of ink is used from the sponge side before the low ink warning message comes up. That is the claim anyway. I think it is in the 5th of the 5 videos linked.

 

[Grandad35]

....The only exception to this rule is when you continue to print long after this warning notice has appeared which at that point you’re perfectly right..

I often print at 13x19, and if the ink chamber empties during the print I get an immediate warning. However, I then have to decide whether to:

1. Let the print continue, partially emptying the lower sponge. If this causes the cart to subsequently perform poorly on my refill tests, it is put into the "to be purged" container and another purged/dried cart put into service (I have over 100 in reserve).
2. Immediately terminate the print (wasting a large sheet of photo paper). Waste not, want not.
   
3. Change the cart in mid-print. The risk of even a minor color discontinuity in the middle of a print rules this out.

Other observations made over time:

1. The best approach is to never let any cart even hit "low", as this introduces at least a little more air into the lower sponge. Obviously, this isn't easy to do on the high usage colors.
   
2. I dislike removing the carts to check on the ink levels because this potentially breaks the "ink link", so I always run a manual cleaning cycle when I pull a cart.
3. I try to keep track of how much I have printed on a set of carts, and if I am unsure whether there is enough ink to complete a batch, I will swap the carts with a full set.
4. When swapping carts, the PM and PC are always swapped. If the the other colors have sufficient ink to outlast the fresh PM and PC, they are left in the printer; if their ink levels are marginal, they are swapped.
5. If you are printing a batch, it is almost impossible to stop the printer immediately on a "low" warning (I get bored and fail to pay sufficient attention), and I will usually end up running one of the carts "empty".
6. On a freshly "low level" PM or PC cart, I can always get one 13x19 print, but seldom two before the cart is declared to be "empty". For this reason, printing even one 13x19 after a low warning is to be avoided.
   
7. On a freshly "low level" PM or PC cart, I can usually get three or four 8x10 prints before the cart is declared to be empty. As with the 13x19, printing even one 8x10 after a low warning is to be avoided.
   
8. Yellow uses about 60% as much ink as PM and PC, M/C/Bk use about 35% as much and R/G about 20% as much. These numbers obviously depend on what you print, but they work for my mix.
9. By testing each cart for proper ink flow after it is refilled, my incidence of "clogs" has dropped to near-zero. Some of the carts that are put into the "to be purged" sealed container will still print properly, but I prefer not to take the risk of wasting the ink/paper/time. IMHO, testing your refilled carts can make them as reliable as a new OEM cart.

 

[jnug]

Wow...what a great post. Thanks very much.

 

[stratman]

I often print at 13x19, and if the ink chamber empties during the print I get an immediate warning. However, I then have to decide whether to:

1. Let the print continue, partially emptying the lower sponge. If this causes the cart to subsequently perform poorly on my refill tests, it is put into the "to be purged" container and another purged/dried cart put into service (I have over 100 in reserve).
2. Immediately terminate the print (wasting a large sheet of photo paper). Waste not, want not.
   
3. Change the cart in mid-print. The risk of even a minor color discontinuity in the middle of a print rules this out.

I agree. To stop the print because a Low ink warning appears would be ridiculous.

How long would take for a cartridge to become problematic if you ran it to Empty and kept refilling? Since you have over 100 cartridges in reserve, why are you wasting so much ink from automatic purges, as well as the purge pads filling up early, with your early warning, freshly filled cartridge installation routine?

2. I dislike removing the carts to check on the ink levels because this potentially breaks the "ink link", so I always run a manual cleaning cycle when I pull a cart.

Does your printer not do a maintenance ink purge whenever a cartridge is pulled from the print head a then another (or even the same) is installed? My Service Manual states this automatic purge takes place in this circumstance.

 

[Grandad35]

How long would take for a cartridge to become problematic if you ran it to Empty and kept refilling? Since you have over 100 cartridges in reserve, why are you wasting so much ink from automatic purges, as well as the purge pads filling up early, with your early warning, freshly filled cartridge installation routine?

I used to run the carts to empty to minimize the waste ink pumped into the pads, and kept detailed records of the number of "equivalent 8x10" pages printed/cart. The PM carts averaged 30-35 pages to "low". plus an additional 3-4 pages to "empty". From this data, you get an additional 10% of ink from the bottom sponge after the ink chamber is empty and therefore reduce the life of the purge pads by about the same 10% by refilling on "low". While extremely rare, I have seen carts fail my refill test after a single refill when they were emptied. You need to remember that these refill tests are very sensitive to a loss of ink flow and I purge many carts that would probably still continue to work properly.

I never ran on a sustained basis with OEM carts, but I am led to believe that clogs and printing problems are few and far between with OEM carts. When I "ran to empty", this was definitely not the case, and there were many times when I had extended troubleshooting sequences which I now believe to have been caused by cart starvation. As I stated previously, that is now a thing of the past and I suspect that my refilled carts now perform as well as new OEM carts. With everything considered, I think that I am now putting less ink into the pads by refilling on low.

Why not just start with a clean cart each time and purge after one refill? Because I am retired and don't like doing any more than is necessary. Also, there is a lot of unrecoverable ink left in a cart when it is purged. It may not end up in the purge pads, but it is still lost.

Does your printer not do a maintenance ink purge whenever a cartridge is pulled from the print head a then another (or even the same) is installed? My Service Manual states this automatic purge takes place in this circumstance.

That's what the manual says, but how does it know that a cart has been removed and replaced unless the carriage with a missing cart moves to the home position so that the "cart empty sensor" can see that a cart isn't there (a missing cart reads as empty)? My guess is that what they say is true if you remove a cart and close the cover so that the printer can scan for a missing/empty cart. Actually, this isn't a bad idea, as it removes the step of requesting a manual head cleaning and would save time.

 

[jnug]

Funny how search engines all work differently. Did multiple searches for some of the topics I had interest in without much luck. Went searching for "testing carts" just to review how many different methods there might be.....BANG....just about everything I was searching for previously showed up in that search....go figure.

Anyway, I am in agreement after much reading that testing the refilled cart is of critical importance. I guess as long as you clean the top of the cart and don't mind physical contact with the vent, then the best way is to insert the plug in the refill hole, (top fill method)try to achieve some sort of a seal at the vent and blow lightly into the vent hole. If you can easily get a drop or two of ink it sounds like you are off to the races as in ready to load and print.

It does sound like testing might be unnecessary for carts that still have ink in the reservoir that you are just topping off when refilling the tank that is low or lowest. For carts that you are just topping off, the sponge still has ink and the reservoir still has ink. So I would guess there should be no issues with simply replacing the topped off cart. If wrong in this opinion, please feel free to contradict. Just not real interested in pressing lips to six carts at a time unless necessary.

 

[Grandad35]

....If you can easily get a drop or two of ink it sounds like you are off to the races as in ready to load and print.

I generally get a stream of many drops. If you have to struggle to get just a few drops the cart needs to be purged.

It does sound like testing might be unnecessary for carts that still have ink in the reservoir that you are just topping off when refilling the tank that is low or lowest.....Just not real interested in pressing lips to six carts at a time unless necessary.

Your statement sounds logical and I can't remember having a cart with that condition fail after refilling. Try it and report back.